1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:02,001 --> 00:00:03,879 [plane engines roaring] 3 00:00:03,962 --> 00:00:07,007 [♪ "Walking With a Ghost" by Tegan and Sara playing] 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 5 00:00:12,012 --> 00:00:15,182 ♪ No matter which way you go ♪ 6 00:00:16,265 --> 00:00:19,186 -♪ No matter which way you stay ♪ -[crowd cheering] 7 00:00:19,269 --> 00:00:23,273 ♪ You're out of my mind, out of my mind ♪ 8 00:00:23,357 --> 00:00:27,402 ♪ Out of my mind, out of my mind ♪ 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,573 ♪ I was walking with a ghost ♪ 10 00:00:31,657 --> 00:00:35,202 ♪ I said please, please don't insist ♪ 11 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:39,581 ♪ I was walking with a ghost ♪ 12 00:00:39,665 --> 00:00:42,876 ♪ I said please, please don't insist ♪ 13 00:00:44,586 --> 00:00:47,840 ♪ No matter which way you go ♪ 14 00:00:48,882 --> 00:00:51,510 ♪ No matter which way you stay ♪ 15 00:00:51,718 --> 00:00:55,806 ♪ You're out of my mind, out of my mind ♪ 16 00:00:55,889 --> 00:00:57,891 ♪ Out of my mind ♪ 17 00:00:57,975 --> 00:01:00,352 ♪ Out of my mind... ♪ 18 00:01:00,435 --> 00:01:01,478 [♪ song fades out] 19 00:01:01,562 --> 00:01:03,772 [Tegan Quin] In 2011, we'd come off the road. 20 00:01:04,273 --> 00:01:06,233 I had been on tour for two years straight, 21 00:01:06,817 --> 00:01:08,652 around the world multiple times. 22 00:01:09,945 --> 00:01:15,325 I just was relaxed, post-tour Tegan, living in LA. 23 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,244 [distant sirens wailing] 24 00:01:17,327 --> 00:01:19,705 One night, I went to a birthday party. 25 00:01:21,623 --> 00:01:23,876 I remember being really excited to see everybody. 26 00:01:25,169 --> 00:01:27,296 I was barely in the door, 27 00:01:27,379 --> 00:01:29,673 and somebody had put a tequila on ice in my hands. 28 00:01:31,008 --> 00:01:32,634 And I just remember going out on the deck 29 00:01:32,718 --> 00:01:36,054 and the sky was so beautiful and everybody was so happy. 30 00:01:36,138 --> 00:01:37,306 [party crowd chattering] 31 00:01:37,389 --> 00:01:39,808 The night starting off so positively. 32 00:01:40,893 --> 00:01:42,769 Maybe an hour after I got to the party, 33 00:01:42,853 --> 00:01:45,856 someone came up and um, said that my sister was looking for me. 34 00:01:46,356 --> 00:01:47,774 I'm fairly certain I brushed them off. 35 00:01:49,693 --> 00:01:51,445 And then someone else came up to me and said, 36 00:01:51,528 --> 00:01:52,905 "Sara's trying to get a hold of you." 37 00:01:52,988 --> 00:01:56,617 And at that point I was convinced, like, someone in our family had died. 38 00:01:56,700 --> 00:01:59,203 I don't think Sara's ever "tried to get ahold of me" before, 39 00:01:59,286 --> 00:02:00,996 so I was like, "Oh, God." 40 00:02:01,079 --> 00:02:04,791 I remember going inside and looking for my phone 41 00:02:04,875 --> 00:02:06,418 and seeing all these missed calls. 42 00:02:06,877 --> 00:02:09,087 It's-It's like a surreal thing to imagine now 43 00:02:09,171 --> 00:02:11,507 because I'm at a massive queer party. 44 00:02:11,590 --> 00:02:13,425 I'm like, you know, finger in one ear 45 00:02:13,509 --> 00:02:15,886 trying to, like, make out what they're saying. 46 00:02:15,969 --> 00:02:17,679 Probably a little intoxicated, 47 00:02:17,763 --> 00:02:22,309 and they start to unravel this super terrifying story. 48 00:02:22,392 --> 00:02:24,853 [♪ dark music playing] 49 00:02:25,437 --> 00:02:28,524 [Piers Henwood] In the beginning we thought it was just a leak of a demo, 50 00:02:29,733 --> 00:02:32,778 and then we realized email addresses 51 00:02:32,861 --> 00:02:35,197 had been directly hacked. 52 00:02:36,949 --> 00:02:40,661 This hacker had access to Tegan and Sara's personal information, 53 00:02:41,119 --> 00:02:42,412 passports, 54 00:02:42,871 --> 00:02:44,790 their mom's medical history. 55 00:02:45,332 --> 00:02:47,125 They also knew where we all lived. 56 00:02:48,627 --> 00:02:52,130 But all of this was just step one in something much worse. 57 00:02:54,007 --> 00:02:55,676 [Sara Quin] The more we started to zoom out 58 00:02:55,759 --> 00:02:59,680 and understand how far-reaching, how invasive, 59 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:04,518 the more we understood how little we really knew. 60 00:03:05,853 --> 00:03:08,939 [Tegan] It got darker when we realized multiple fans 61 00:03:09,481 --> 00:03:11,942 had been catfished and thought that they were talking to me. 62 00:03:13,944 --> 00:03:15,696 It's not something that happened, 63 00:03:15,779 --> 00:03:20,075 it's something that currently happens and is happening. 64 00:03:22,244 --> 00:03:23,704 And 16 years later, 65 00:03:23,787 --> 00:03:26,456 there's someone still out there pretending to be me. 66 00:03:27,666 --> 00:03:30,169 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 67 00:03:30,252 --> 00:03:32,254 [keyboard keys clacking] 68 00:03:37,593 --> 00:03:39,136 ♪♪ 69 00:03:45,309 --> 00:03:47,436 [Erin Lee Carr] Why are we sitting here today? 70 00:03:47,853 --> 00:03:50,564 We are sitting here today to talk about Fake Tegan 71 00:03:50,647 --> 00:03:53,775 and my experience with someone pretending to be me. 72 00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:57,487 [Erin] Why did you never talk about this publicly? 73 00:03:57,571 --> 00:03:59,281 Why have you kept it a secret? 74 00:04:00,699 --> 00:04:03,994 You know, as soon as we got the green light 75 00:04:04,077 --> 00:04:07,372 to do this project, I immediately regretted it. 76 00:04:08,123 --> 00:04:10,125 I actually regret it now. [chuckles] 77 00:04:10,209 --> 00:04:11,418 [Erin] That's amazing. 78 00:04:12,294 --> 00:04:14,171 This is gonna make a lot of people uncomfortable. 79 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:16,840 It puts our fan base under the spotlight. 80 00:04:16,924 --> 00:04:18,759 I don't wanna accuse the wrong person. 81 00:04:18,842 --> 00:04:20,219 I... 82 00:04:21,512 --> 00:04:25,641 had to go against... a decade of instinct, 83 00:04:25,724 --> 00:04:28,143 which was that if we talk about it, it'll make it worse. 84 00:04:29,478 --> 00:04:31,813 And yet, I... 85 00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:35,275 can't stop thinking about it. 86 00:04:35,984 --> 00:04:38,904 Someone can still pretend to be me, they still do. 87 00:04:38,987 --> 00:04:40,864 I just wanna know what the fuck happened. 88 00:04:41,532 --> 00:04:44,910 ♪ Tegan didn't go to school today ♪ 89 00:04:44,993 --> 00:04:48,747 ♪ Left me all alone to play ♪ 90 00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:53,502 [Sara] I loved the moments of discovery 91 00:04:53,585 --> 00:04:55,212 that we could make music. 92 00:04:55,587 --> 00:04:57,464 One day you don't know how to do it and the next day, 93 00:04:57,548 --> 00:04:59,800 "Holy shit, I know how to make a song... 94 00:04:59,883 --> 00:05:02,177 [♪ guitar music playing] 95 00:05:02,261 --> 00:05:03,554 ...and so can my sister." 96 00:05:04,263 --> 00:05:07,474 And then we can sing together and that feels pretty amazing. 97 00:05:13,772 --> 00:05:15,858 [Sara] Tegan was like, "Let's borrow money and make an album. 98 00:05:15,941 --> 00:05:17,693 "Let's go on tour. 99 00:05:17,776 --> 00:05:20,821 Let's put posters up with our faces all over the city." 100 00:05:27,119 --> 00:05:30,873 ♪ Complicated, graced by icons ♪ 101 00:05:30,956 --> 00:05:34,710 ♪ Touched by saints, I am powerless ♪ 102 00:05:34,793 --> 00:05:36,879 [Tegan] The first people that knew our music well enough 103 00:05:36,962 --> 00:05:38,589 to sing along were our friends. 104 00:05:39,298 --> 00:05:40,716 And then in high school, 105 00:05:41,216 --> 00:05:43,927 we won a contest at the local university 106 00:05:44,011 --> 00:05:45,929 and every major label in Canada 107 00:05:46,013 --> 00:05:47,264 tried to sign us. 108 00:05:47,347 --> 00:05:49,600 Signed by Neil Young, that's gotta be exciting. 109 00:05:49,725 --> 00:05:50,976 Uh, yeah, it's very exciting. 110 00:05:51,059 --> 00:05:52,102 [audience cheering] 111 00:05:52,186 --> 00:05:55,439 [Neil Young] I'd like to bring out a couple of friends, Tegan and Sara. 112 00:05:55,522 --> 00:05:56,732 [cheering, whistling] 113 00:05:56,815 --> 00:05:59,693 [Tegan] Our first tour was huge opening for Neil Young. 114 00:05:59,776 --> 00:06:02,571 You know, we were 20, late '90s, early 2000s. 115 00:06:02,654 --> 00:06:04,198 We were very queer. 116 00:06:04,281 --> 00:06:07,868 ♪ I hope I never figure out who broke your heart ♪ 117 00:06:07,951 --> 00:06:10,078 ♪ And if I do ♪ 118 00:06:10,162 --> 00:06:11,705 ♪ If I do ♪ 119 00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:13,874 The early part of our career was really tough. 120 00:06:13,999 --> 00:06:16,543 We were in indie rock, very male, very straight. 121 00:06:17,127 --> 00:06:19,922 We weren't really sure that this was gonna be our career. 122 00:06:20,964 --> 00:06:23,050 We coul-- We couldn't really sustain a living yet. 123 00:06:23,842 --> 00:06:26,178 [Jenny Eliscu] Tegan and Sara would often be described 124 00:06:26,261 --> 00:06:28,388 as "lesbian folk duo." 125 00:06:28,847 --> 00:06:31,183 The music that did well in that time 126 00:06:31,266 --> 00:06:33,894 in a mainstream way was really boring. 127 00:06:33,977 --> 00:06:36,063 ♪ The years start coming and they don't stop coming ♪ 128 00:06:36,146 --> 00:06:38,023 ♪ She says she's no good ♪ 129 00:06:38,815 --> 00:06:40,734 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 130 00:06:40,817 --> 00:06:44,655 It is just sort of all generic, it's all general interest music. 131 00:06:44,738 --> 00:06:47,449 That did provide the ideal space 132 00:06:47,533 --> 00:06:50,410 for underground and alternative and indie music 133 00:06:51,078 --> 00:06:52,704 to bubble up in a real way. 134 00:06:52,788 --> 00:06:55,624 [♪ "Walking With a Ghost" by Tegan and Sara playing] 135 00:06:55,707 --> 00:06:56,959 [Tegan] When we put out So Jealous, 136 00:06:57,042 --> 00:06:58,794 college radio stations started playing us. 137 00:06:58,877 --> 00:07:00,754 So young people started to come to the shows. 138 00:07:00,838 --> 00:07:04,007 ♪ No matter which way you go ♪ 139 00:07:04,091 --> 00:07:05,926 We started playing bigger venues, 140 00:07:06,009 --> 00:07:09,471 thousands of people showing up every night, singing along, 141 00:07:09,555 --> 00:07:11,640 wearing our faces on their shirts. 142 00:07:11,723 --> 00:07:13,308 ♪ Out of my mind ♪ 143 00:07:13,392 --> 00:07:14,852 That's when we felt the shift 144 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:16,311 and it started to feel like fandom. 145 00:07:17,062 --> 00:07:18,438 [interviewer] What's your favorite band? 146 00:07:18,522 --> 00:07:19,982 [fans] Tegan and Sara. 147 00:07:21,316 --> 00:07:24,278 And it was like, "Oh, I think, like, this is, like, a real thing that we do." 148 00:07:24,361 --> 00:07:25,946 [cheering and applauding] 149 00:07:26,029 --> 00:07:27,823 Thank you very much, everybody. 150 00:07:29,491 --> 00:07:31,493 [cheering continues] 151 00:07:33,370 --> 00:07:34,788 [cheering fades] 152 00:07:36,498 --> 00:07:39,960 When we started to have fans, we started to talk to them. 153 00:07:40,043 --> 00:07:42,004 You know, we'd go out to the merch table after every show 154 00:07:42,087 --> 00:07:43,714 and be out there for an hour, two hours. 155 00:07:43,797 --> 00:07:45,132 [fan 1] I see it. [giggles] 156 00:07:45,632 --> 00:07:47,217 [fan 2] I just want a picture behind bars. 157 00:07:47,301 --> 00:07:48,302 [both chuckle] 158 00:07:49,261 --> 00:07:51,638 Taking photos, but mostly just talking to everybody, 159 00:07:51,722 --> 00:07:53,432 just getting to know them. 160 00:07:53,724 --> 00:07:54,808 Similar to us, 161 00:07:54,892 --> 00:07:57,603 like, had, like, mullets and asymmetrical haircuts, 162 00:07:59,021 --> 00:08:02,065 started to feel like there were people who understood 163 00:08:02,149 --> 00:08:04,067 what we were trying to do and understood us. 164 00:08:04,151 --> 00:08:06,320 We just started to see ourself reflected in our audience 165 00:08:06,403 --> 00:08:07,779 and it felt really nice. 166 00:08:09,072 --> 00:08:11,200 [Jenny] In the summer of 2007, 167 00:08:11,283 --> 00:08:14,912 I was sent to interview Tegan and Sara. 168 00:08:14,995 --> 00:08:17,664 It really made a huge impact 169 00:08:17,748 --> 00:08:20,584 to know that part of their identity was that they were queer. 170 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:24,254 It's shocking to think that it's not that long ago 171 00:08:24,338 --> 00:08:26,924 you know, that it was that rare. 172 00:08:28,050 --> 00:08:31,261 [Jaime Wojdowski] I didn't know very many queer artists at the time at all. 173 00:08:31,929 --> 00:08:33,639 You just didn't really have a lot of chances 174 00:08:33,722 --> 00:08:37,476 to see yourself, you know, reflected in, in somebody else on stage. 175 00:08:38,685 --> 00:08:40,938 [Tegan] Being a fan of Tegan and Sara meant something. 176 00:08:41,021 --> 00:08:44,775 That was code for like, "I'm queer" or "I'm different," 177 00:08:44,858 --> 00:08:47,277 or "I went through a horrific breakup," 178 00:08:47,361 --> 00:08:48,570 or all three. [chuckles] 179 00:08:50,656 --> 00:08:53,325 [Sara] We'd get letters from women around the world who would say, 180 00:08:53,408 --> 00:08:56,995 "I can't talk to anyone about the fact that I am gay, 181 00:08:57,079 --> 00:08:58,539 but I'm telling you." 182 00:08:59,289 --> 00:09:01,416 That was when I started to feel like, 183 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:05,337 "Oh, something about us is drawing in these people 184 00:09:05,420 --> 00:09:07,130 and making it safe for them to share things," 185 00:09:07,214 --> 00:09:08,590 and that's different. 186 00:09:08,674 --> 00:09:12,052 [Tegan] Our shows and the spaces that we created as a band 187 00:09:12,135 --> 00:09:13,345 became really important places 188 00:09:14,096 --> 00:09:15,806 that we hoped they'd feel comfortable in. 189 00:09:15,889 --> 00:09:19,601 It felt absolutely our responsibility to take care of them. 190 00:09:19,685 --> 00:09:24,523 [all singing] ♪ Happy birthday Tegan and Sara ♪ 191 00:09:25,190 --> 00:09:28,819 ♪ Happy birthday to you ♪ 192 00:09:28,902 --> 00:09:30,237 [fans cheering] 193 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:31,947 [Jaime] These are all the shows that I've been to 194 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:33,615 in the last 18 years. 195 00:09:34,116 --> 00:09:35,158 When they go to new states, 196 00:09:35,242 --> 00:09:39,413 I go there just so I can add to the map of the states I've seen them in. 197 00:09:42,457 --> 00:09:46,920 These are where I have shoved all of my concert tickets 198 00:09:47,004 --> 00:09:51,341 and, yeah, here's one of my earliest ones from 2007. 199 00:09:52,509 --> 00:09:54,636 These are all Tegan and Sara shirts. 200 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,388 Put these in, in rainbow order 201 00:09:56,471 --> 00:09:58,599 so I can find the ones I'm looking for. 202 00:10:01,602 --> 00:10:04,188 We decided we wanted to do, like, an evening with Tegan and Sara 203 00:10:04,271 --> 00:10:06,148 and feel-- Like, we've played a whole new record 204 00:10:06,231 --> 00:10:07,274 and then do old stuff 205 00:10:07,357 --> 00:10:09,818 and just give everybody their money's worth, you know? 206 00:10:09,902 --> 00:10:11,904 [Jaime] I started filming in 2005 207 00:10:11,987 --> 00:10:13,739 when I got my first digital camera. 208 00:10:13,822 --> 00:10:15,616 And at the time, YouTube didn't exist, 209 00:10:15,699 --> 00:10:18,452 so I, you know, would upload my videos, 210 00:10:18,535 --> 00:10:20,078 uh, to a, like a file sharing site 211 00:10:20,162 --> 00:10:22,831 and then I would upload those links to LiveJournal. 212 00:10:23,874 --> 00:10:27,711 So, LiveJournal, you know, early on it was a little corner of the Internet, 213 00:10:27,794 --> 00:10:30,714 and it was like one of the only places I found to meet fans. 214 00:10:31,548 --> 00:10:32,883 You know, when you start being a fan 215 00:10:32,966 --> 00:10:35,511 and you don't have anybody else to talk to about the thing 216 00:10:35,594 --> 00:10:37,554 that you're interested in, it's kind of lonely. 217 00:10:37,638 --> 00:10:38,805 And so you look for your people. 218 00:10:38,889 --> 00:10:40,807 [keyboard keys clacking] 219 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:45,979 Once you meet other people, then you just enable each other. 220 00:10:46,063 --> 00:10:47,064 [laughs] 221 00:10:48,106 --> 00:10:51,860 [Julie] I started listening to Tegan and Sara in college. 222 00:10:52,903 --> 00:10:56,573 I was going through a really tough time realizing that I was queer. 223 00:10:56,657 --> 00:10:59,535 It was just-- fear is the, the dominant feeling, 224 00:10:59,618 --> 00:11:01,495 when I think back, I was just afraid. 225 00:11:04,373 --> 00:11:06,917 The community aspect is-- was a huge part 226 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,419 of the early Tegan and Sara days for me. 227 00:11:09,503 --> 00:11:11,630 It was just, it was magical. 228 00:11:11,713 --> 00:11:14,716 Like, you had to have been there to understand. 229 00:11:17,135 --> 00:11:20,222 [Piers] This was a new era of social media 230 00:11:20,305 --> 00:11:22,599 and different kinda communication with fans 231 00:11:23,308 --> 00:11:25,394 and all the dialogue that was made possible 232 00:11:25,477 --> 00:11:29,314 by, by networking sort of added fuel to the fire 233 00:11:29,398 --> 00:11:31,525 of people's desire to talk about Tegan and Sara. 234 00:11:31,608 --> 00:11:33,610 The thing that happens at shows is now happening 235 00:11:33,694 --> 00:11:35,279 in an "online space." 236 00:11:35,362 --> 00:11:37,364 Like, I remember that becoming an idea. 237 00:11:37,447 --> 00:11:39,616 That was new, that was totally new. 238 00:11:41,076 --> 00:11:42,452 It was like opening a door at a party 239 00:11:42,536 --> 00:11:44,246 and finding a bunch of people are talking about you 240 00:11:44,955 --> 00:11:46,707 and you're like, "You're talking about me?" 241 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:49,209 Like, "I'll leave, I'll leave, I'll stay, I'll come. 242 00:11:49,293 --> 00:11:51,336 No, you, you guys stay, I'll leave." 243 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:53,422 [keyboard keys clacking] 244 00:11:57,593 --> 00:11:59,970 I was the front-line of communication for any social media, 245 00:12:00,053 --> 00:12:03,891 any, you know, email, anything, that c-- it came to me first. 246 00:12:03,974 --> 00:12:06,351 And so, I got to see all these heartbreaking stories 247 00:12:06,435 --> 00:12:10,063 and heartwarming stories about how much their music meant to people. 248 00:12:10,147 --> 00:12:12,065 [indistinct chatter] 249 00:12:12,149 --> 00:12:14,359 [Piers] They were incredibly good at building community. 250 00:12:14,443 --> 00:12:16,069 [chatter continues] 251 00:12:16,528 --> 00:12:19,990 When we came on board, there was already a groundswell 252 00:12:20,073 --> 00:12:21,992 of Tegan and Sara fans around the world. 253 00:12:22,075 --> 00:12:25,245 Many of them communicated with Tegan and Sara 254 00:12:25,329 --> 00:12:29,458 through burgeoning social media and, and mailing lists 255 00:12:29,541 --> 00:12:30,834 and sort of at shows, 256 00:12:30,918 --> 00:12:33,587 and Tegan and Sara really were very good at 257 00:12:34,505 --> 00:12:36,632 fostering and building that relationship with their fans. 258 00:12:40,886 --> 00:12:42,804 [Kim Persley] It was a lifeline for a lot of people. 259 00:12:42,888 --> 00:12:46,850 These people connected with someone being out and proud 260 00:12:46,934 --> 00:12:49,770 and living their life on stage. 261 00:12:49,853 --> 00:12:52,773 And they were like, "These are my people, this is my community." 262 00:12:52,856 --> 00:12:54,983 ♪♪ 263 00:12:57,736 --> 00:13:02,324 [Julie] Around the fall of 2008, I remember being on Facebook 264 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:06,328 and I got a message from another Tegan and Sara fan. 265 00:13:06,411 --> 00:13:10,624 She said, "Here's Tegan's profile and it's the real Tegan." 266 00:13:10,707 --> 00:13:12,960 Hi, everyone, we're Tegan and Sara and we are... 267 00:13:13,043 --> 00:13:15,420 [Julie] Tegan and Sara were super known in the community 268 00:13:15,504 --> 00:13:16,672 as being very accessible. 269 00:13:16,755 --> 00:13:18,006 -We're in Copenhagen. -[crowd cheering] 270 00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:19,341 [Julie] And so I thought, "Why not? 271 00:13:19,424 --> 00:13:20,425 I'll reach out." 272 00:13:21,969 --> 00:13:23,887 [keyboard keys clacking] 273 00:13:29,810 --> 00:13:31,562 Eventually she replied. 274 00:13:32,729 --> 00:13:34,898 We started talking on Facebook. 275 00:13:35,983 --> 00:13:37,526 Sometimes, we would talk every day. 276 00:13:38,318 --> 00:13:39,820 [keyboard keys clacking] 277 00:13:39,903 --> 00:13:42,406 [♪ light music playing] 278 00:13:48,745 --> 00:13:50,747 ♪♪ 279 00:13:58,797 --> 00:14:02,384 At some point she started sending me song demos. 280 00:14:02,467 --> 00:14:05,095 ♪♪ 281 00:14:09,099 --> 00:14:11,560 [keyboard keys clacking] 282 00:14:16,064 --> 00:14:18,650 Eventually, I did tell a couple of people 283 00:14:18,734 --> 00:14:20,569 that I had become friends with Tegan. 284 00:14:20,652 --> 00:14:22,696 They were excited for me, they thought it was really cool. 285 00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:27,868 And then I remember Tegan had bought a new condo. 286 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,164 [keyboard keys clacking] 287 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,293 And she had sent pictures of this new condo, 288 00:14:36,376 --> 00:14:38,170 you know, all the rooms in the house. 289 00:14:38,253 --> 00:14:41,006 Tegan's partner, like, the back of her head was in a couple shots 290 00:14:41,089 --> 00:14:42,716 as they're looking around the rooms. 291 00:14:43,133 --> 00:14:46,678 At one point, Tegan had told me that their mom had breast cancer. 292 00:14:47,012 --> 00:14:48,805 [keyboard keys clacking] 293 00:14:55,354 --> 00:14:57,689 I remember thinking it was a very deeply personal thing 294 00:14:57,773 --> 00:14:58,774 to share with someone 295 00:14:58,857 --> 00:15:00,067 and I thought, 296 00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:02,194 "Wow, they must really trust me." 297 00:15:02,277 --> 00:15:05,531 ♪♪ 298 00:15:05,614 --> 00:15:07,824 It felt really cool to be that trusted. 299 00:15:08,742 --> 00:15:12,913 At this point, it had become a long-term friendship 300 00:15:12,996 --> 00:15:14,373 at a time when I really needed it. 301 00:15:14,456 --> 00:15:16,458 [♪ music slowly fades out] 302 00:15:22,798 --> 00:15:24,800 [keyboard keys clacking] 303 00:15:26,260 --> 00:15:30,180 In 2011, she sent me a shared drive 304 00:15:30,264 --> 00:15:31,431 and a password... 305 00:15:35,060 --> 00:15:39,064 that included passport photos for Tegan and Sara 306 00:15:39,147 --> 00:15:40,190 and all of their band. 307 00:15:40,274 --> 00:15:42,484 [♪ dark, suspenseful music playing] 308 00:15:47,406 --> 00:15:51,076 This was a moment where I had to kind of sit back and digest it 309 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:52,411 and-- 310 00:15:52,494 --> 00:15:55,372 because it felt really off and my gut said, 311 00:15:56,665 --> 00:15:58,500 "Why would she be sending this to me?" 312 00:15:58,584 --> 00:16:02,045 ♪♪ 313 00:16:02,129 --> 00:16:06,550 So, I reached out to my friend who I knew had connections to her management 314 00:16:07,342 --> 00:16:09,428 and I'll never forget I got a text... 315 00:16:09,511 --> 00:16:12,055 [♪ dark, suspenseful music continues] 316 00:16:14,433 --> 00:16:16,560 ...that said, "She has no idea who you are." 317 00:16:19,313 --> 00:16:20,814 And I said something like, 318 00:16:20,898 --> 00:16:22,608 "Well, then Tegan has a big problem." 319 00:16:22,691 --> 00:16:24,776 ♪♪ 320 00:16:27,321 --> 00:16:31,950 I remember our worlds exploded Friday, May 20, 2011. 321 00:16:32,409 --> 00:16:34,703 I spoke to Julie that day for the first time, 322 00:16:34,786 --> 00:16:38,415 and I, you know, was completely dumbfounded. 323 00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:40,709 She had been carrying on what she believed 324 00:16:40,792 --> 00:16:43,128 was a, you know, Internet-based relationship 325 00:16:43,212 --> 00:16:45,589 with "Tegan" for two years. 326 00:16:45,672 --> 00:16:47,716 And as I asked, you know, 327 00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:50,093 what types of information and things had been shared, 328 00:16:50,177 --> 00:16:52,888 there were three things I'll never forget she told me. 329 00:16:53,472 --> 00:16:57,643 She told me that she had a song called God Help Yourself, 330 00:16:57,726 --> 00:16:59,770 which was a demo Tegan had written a few months ago. 331 00:16:59,853 --> 00:17:02,606 And this was an era where demos were kept under, you know, 332 00:17:02,689 --> 00:17:03,899 lock and key very carefully. 333 00:17:04,316 --> 00:17:08,153 And so, a-a leak of a demo was a really big deal to us. 334 00:17:08,237 --> 00:17:11,573 And then she told me she had Tegan and Sara's passports, 335 00:17:11,657 --> 00:17:15,160 that Fake Tegan had shared passport scans. 336 00:17:15,244 --> 00:17:17,871 And when I saw them, they were the real thing. 337 00:17:17,955 --> 00:17:19,873 And that of course completely haunted us, 338 00:17:19,957 --> 00:17:23,252 because obviously a passport scan can be the beginning of identity theft. 339 00:17:23,627 --> 00:17:26,213 And then possibly the most alarming thing 340 00:17:26,296 --> 00:17:27,714 from a personal standpoint was that 341 00:17:27,798 --> 00:17:31,635 she knew that Tegan and Sara's mum, Sonia, had breast cancer. 342 00:17:33,345 --> 00:17:35,514 The fact that they knew that my mum had had cancer 343 00:17:35,597 --> 00:17:37,349 and that wasn't something we publicly talked about. 344 00:17:37,432 --> 00:17:39,268 It's not something we publicly talk about now. 345 00:17:40,102 --> 00:17:43,021 It was creepy, like it was-- it-- 346 00:17:43,105 --> 00:17:46,441 'Cause it introduced the idea that it's someone we know. 347 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,777 Is it possible that someone 348 00:17:48,861 --> 00:17:50,821 who knows intimate details about me 349 00:17:52,072 --> 00:17:53,532 is pretending to be me? 350 00:17:53,615 --> 00:17:55,951 They just need to know me or know someone 351 00:17:56,034 --> 00:17:58,871 one or two steps from me. 352 00:17:59,621 --> 00:18:02,708 As soon as we found out someone was pretending to be me, 353 00:18:02,791 --> 00:18:06,712 we just started to refer to them as Fake Tegan or Fegan. 354 00:18:07,379 --> 00:18:09,214 No one was operating at a high level 355 00:18:09,298 --> 00:18:12,009 with knowledge of how to protect people online. 356 00:18:13,051 --> 00:18:15,137 Like, we were way out of our depth. 357 00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:16,305 It was the Wild West. 358 00:18:17,306 --> 00:18:21,518 So, we sent out a very clear message on socials, 359 00:18:21,602 --> 00:18:23,312 on our website to let people know 360 00:18:23,395 --> 00:18:25,981 that we're not carrying on personal relationships 361 00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:27,983 with any fans over email. 362 00:18:28,066 --> 00:18:29,818 [keyboard keys clacking] 363 00:18:29,902 --> 00:18:31,820 [♪ soft suspenseful music playing] 364 00:18:34,573 --> 00:18:36,909 [notifications chiming] 365 00:18:36,992 --> 00:18:40,495 Multiple people came forward from all over the world 366 00:18:40,579 --> 00:18:43,040 saying that they too had been corresponding 367 00:18:43,123 --> 00:18:46,001 with someone who said they were Tegan for varying amounts of time, 368 00:18:46,084 --> 00:18:48,128 in some cases it had been for years. 369 00:18:48,212 --> 00:18:49,755 [keyboard keys clacking] 370 00:18:52,090 --> 00:18:54,134 [♪ suspenseful music continues] 371 00:19:02,643 --> 00:19:05,312 [♪ music intensifies] 372 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,236 [♪ music softens] 373 00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:16,949 Because Tegan and Sara were so close and open to their fans, 374 00:19:17,032 --> 00:19:20,118 communicating, a part of the community, 375 00:19:20,702 --> 00:19:21,787 they believed it. 376 00:19:21,870 --> 00:19:25,707 So, whoever Fegan was, took advantage of that for sure. 377 00:19:25,791 --> 00:19:28,168 But taking advantage of young queer women, 378 00:19:28,252 --> 00:19:29,920 like, just disgusting. 379 00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:34,508 [Tegan] This whole new really scary universe opened up 380 00:19:34,591 --> 00:19:37,845 and it started to make me feel paranoid about everyone. 381 00:19:38,554 --> 00:19:41,974 At that time, it was like this weird map populated 382 00:19:42,057 --> 00:19:43,851 with all these other people where-- So it was like, 383 00:19:43,934 --> 00:19:46,645 "Here's my life, here's what I'm doing, here's the truth, 384 00:19:46,728 --> 00:19:48,772 "here's what everyone who loves me and knows me 385 00:19:48,856 --> 00:19:51,525 knows about me and I know about myself." 386 00:19:51,608 --> 00:19:56,196 Running parallel to that true story about myself 387 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,115 was a fake story about me, 388 00:19:58,907 --> 00:20:01,034 where Fake Tegan is connecting 389 00:20:01,118 --> 00:20:02,911 and making all these relationships 390 00:20:02,995 --> 00:20:05,414 with a whole world of other people. 391 00:20:05,497 --> 00:20:07,082 [distorted glitching sounds] 392 00:20:10,794 --> 00:20:12,462 -Hi. -[Erin] Hi. 393 00:20:12,546 --> 00:20:13,755 [Tegan] Hi, I'm Tegan. 394 00:20:14,256 --> 00:20:15,424 [Jana] [on laptop] Hi, Tegan. 395 00:20:15,507 --> 00:20:17,968 Erin, it's such an honor to meet both of you. 396 00:20:18,051 --> 00:20:19,553 I'm a huge fan. 397 00:20:20,804 --> 00:20:23,348 Today, I'm hoping you could take me back 398 00:20:23,432 --> 00:20:27,644 to, like, when you first started talking to, to Tegan. 399 00:20:27,728 --> 00:20:30,606 It was the time of the Internet forum, 400 00:20:30,689 --> 00:20:34,443 so, LiveJournal and Tumblr, 401 00:20:34,526 --> 00:20:37,863 and where I found, like, people talking about, 402 00:20:37,946 --> 00:20:43,035 "Hey, Tegan's got a personal profile on Last.fm." 403 00:20:43,118 --> 00:20:47,873 And I messaged that profile 404 00:20:47,956 --> 00:20:50,000 and then eventually got a response. 405 00:20:50,375 --> 00:20:51,919 [Mindy] [on laptop] I had gone to a show 406 00:20:52,002 --> 00:20:54,755 and at that show, real Tegan, 407 00:20:54,838 --> 00:20:58,133 you, had handed me your set list 408 00:20:58,342 --> 00:21:00,969 and I went home and I got on Facebook 409 00:21:01,053 --> 00:21:04,556 and, uh, I got a message from "Tegan Quin" 410 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,225 and I thought it was just like a fan, 411 00:21:06,308 --> 00:21:09,728 but at some point Fake Tegan added me as a friend on Facebook. 412 00:21:09,811 --> 00:21:13,815 I, of course, go to, like, their profile to see, you know, who this person is, 413 00:21:14,358 --> 00:21:16,360 and I'm looking through everything and I'm like, 414 00:21:16,443 --> 00:21:18,237 "What is-- What is going on? 415 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,030 This is, this is strange." 416 00:21:20,113 --> 00:21:21,156 Because the people 417 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,033 that were writing on Fake Tegan's wall 418 00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:24,243 were your actual friends. 419 00:21:24,868 --> 00:21:26,370 They were people from in your life. 420 00:21:26,787 --> 00:21:29,623 -[Tegan] [through video call] Right. -And it just, it felt very real. 421 00:21:29,706 --> 00:21:33,252 Can you talk about what it was like to be receiving these messages, 422 00:21:33,335 --> 00:21:35,337 how many times it would come in per day, 423 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:36,547 that kinda thing? 424 00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:39,132 In the beginning, it wasn't that conversational at that time. 425 00:21:39,216 --> 00:21:42,302 It was like, you know, throwing me little tidbits, 426 00:21:42,386 --> 00:21:45,806 [on laptop] like, three-word responses that I'd get. 427 00:21:45,889 --> 00:21:47,891 But Tegan was talking to me. 428 00:21:48,308 --> 00:21:50,853 It was like this, you know, secret that I had. 429 00:21:50,936 --> 00:21:52,604 Like, I was thinking this is Tegan. 430 00:21:52,688 --> 00:21:54,314 And are you talking, like, all the time? 431 00:21:54,398 --> 00:21:55,399 It was pretty constant. 432 00:21:55,482 --> 00:21:58,026 I mean, you could-- if you look at the emails, 433 00:21:58,110 --> 00:21:59,403 it was, like, every day. 434 00:21:59,486 --> 00:22:02,239 [Mindy] [on laptop] We'll talk more about, "Oh, what are you doing today?" 435 00:22:02,322 --> 00:22:04,366 And they're like, "Oh, it's freezing, I'm in Denver." 436 00:22:04,449 --> 00:22:05,868 And I would look at your tour schedule 437 00:22:05,951 --> 00:22:07,953 -and you would be in Denver for that day. -Right. 438 00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:10,038 [Mindy] And I'd be like, "Oh, okay." 439 00:22:10,122 --> 00:22:12,583 And then, like, I started thinking, 440 00:22:12,666 --> 00:22:15,669 "Well, if it's really Tegan, like, they wouldn't be talking to me 441 00:22:15,752 --> 00:22:16,920 when shows are going on." 442 00:22:17,004 --> 00:22:18,922 They would never talk to me at the wrong time. 443 00:22:19,006 --> 00:22:22,092 It was always, like, the "correct time" when you would be available. 444 00:22:22,176 --> 00:22:24,636 You know, I would get music from this person. 445 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,388 [on laptop] Like, I was getting unreleased music 446 00:22:26,471 --> 00:22:29,933 and after maybe, like, a month-plus of us chatting, 447 00:22:30,392 --> 00:22:32,186 it was really hard to deny at that point. 448 00:22:32,269 --> 00:22:33,270 Yeah. 449 00:22:33,353 --> 00:22:35,105 [Jana] [on laptop] Oh, it was very exciting, yeah. 450 00:22:35,189 --> 00:22:38,859 It-- You know, we had some intimate back and forths. 451 00:22:38,942 --> 00:22:41,486 It became more flirty at that time. 452 00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:43,697 Okay, did it feel like it escalated to a point 453 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:45,282 there was almost like a relationship? 454 00:22:45,365 --> 00:22:47,326 -Yeah! Yeah. -[Tegan] Yeah. 455 00:22:47,409 --> 00:22:49,411 [Mindy] Like, I just felt like you didn't want people to know 456 00:22:49,494 --> 00:22:50,495 that you were talking to people 457 00:22:50,579 --> 00:22:52,331 and, like, it was a super big secret that I had, 458 00:22:52,414 --> 00:22:53,832 and, like, I wanted to be respectful of you, 459 00:22:53,916 --> 00:22:54,917 so I didn't tell anybody. 460 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,251 -Yeah. -[Mindy] They were leaning into 461 00:22:56,335 --> 00:22:57,711 that notion of knowing that, like, 462 00:22:58,504 --> 00:23:00,547 as a group of fans of this band 463 00:23:00,631 --> 00:23:03,091 that, like, we loved Tegan and Sara so much 464 00:23:03,175 --> 00:23:06,970 that we, you know, would protect them at that level 465 00:23:07,054 --> 00:23:08,472 of not embarrassing Tegan. 466 00:23:08,972 --> 00:23:13,685 They definitely left a mark on me, that's for sure. 467 00:23:13,769 --> 00:23:15,979 When you found out that the person you were talking to 468 00:23:16,063 --> 00:23:19,441 all that time that you thought was me, wasn't me, 469 00:23:19,525 --> 00:23:21,401 what-- what did-- what did you feel? 470 00:23:21,485 --> 00:23:24,238 It was shocking, you know? To hear the, the finality of like, 471 00:23:24,321 --> 00:23:27,324 "Yes, it was in fact not real." 472 00:23:27,407 --> 00:23:29,117 And, like, going back and reliving some of it, 473 00:23:29,201 --> 00:23:31,954 I'm like, "Man, this stuff was really convincing, 474 00:23:32,037 --> 00:23:35,374 and I... I wasn't dumb for believing it." 475 00:23:35,457 --> 00:23:37,084 -Like, it seemed so real. -[Tegan] No. 476 00:23:37,167 --> 00:23:38,585 How did it end? 477 00:23:39,753 --> 00:23:42,589 She got kind of upset with me. 478 00:23:42,673 --> 00:23:48,011 She found out that I had sent the demo to Tara, 479 00:23:48,095 --> 00:23:50,055 another Tegan and Sara fan. 480 00:23:50,138 --> 00:23:54,101 She was just somebody that I had this communication with 481 00:23:54,184 --> 00:23:55,352 and I would tell her-- 482 00:23:55,435 --> 00:23:57,646 She was somebody else that I could talk to about it. 483 00:23:58,188 --> 00:24:00,899 Tegan emailed me one day saying, 484 00:24:00,983 --> 00:24:04,361 "Why did you, you know, send these to anybody?" 485 00:24:04,444 --> 00:24:06,113 And I'm, and I-I was thinking like, 486 00:24:06,196 --> 00:24:08,824 "How are you-- how do you even know about this person?" 487 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,162 [breeze blowing] 488 00:24:15,163 --> 00:24:16,874 [Jaime] Tara sent me a direct message, 489 00:24:16,957 --> 00:24:20,169 because she had been talking to Tegan for one or two years 490 00:24:20,252 --> 00:24:24,047 and she was very upset because as she'd been talking to Tegan, 491 00:24:24,131 --> 00:24:29,303 she, she told me that Tegan had gotten progressively... meaner 492 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,515 and even a little abusive as the time went on. 493 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:36,894 And she was devastated by this. 494 00:24:36,977 --> 00:24:39,396 But this girl, you know, was like, 495 00:24:39,479 --> 00:24:42,149 "I-I can't stop talking to her because it's Tegan 496 00:24:42,232 --> 00:24:44,443 and this band is really important to me." 497 00:24:44,526 --> 00:24:49,364 Um, and so, she just felt, you know, really conflicted about, about that. 498 00:24:50,699 --> 00:24:52,034 It was really upsetting to her. 499 00:25:10,177 --> 00:25:11,762 Were you an early fan? 500 00:25:11,845 --> 00:25:14,473 Lie, what was your fandom like with Tegan and Sara? 501 00:26:29,423 --> 00:26:32,134 Do you still have access to that old phone? 502 00:26:35,804 --> 00:26:37,055 Um, if it's, if it's at all possible, 503 00:26:37,139 --> 00:26:39,641 if you'd feel comfortable, like, sharing any of it. 504 00:26:39,725 --> 00:26:41,852 Like that's-- We're trying to basically figure out, 505 00:26:41,935 --> 00:26:44,563 like, what the, the patterns were like and stuff like that. 506 00:26:51,612 --> 00:26:54,448 I mean, that would be so significant, right? 507 00:26:59,828 --> 00:27:02,956 In the old days, the hacking was they're these criminal people 508 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,333 and they're stealing things. 509 00:27:04,917 --> 00:27:06,710 Catfishing basically, 510 00:27:06,793 --> 00:27:08,712 now we're talking about someone 511 00:27:08,795 --> 00:27:11,590 who's trying to manipulate another individual. 512 00:27:11,673 --> 00:27:13,759 [keyboard keys clacking] 513 00:27:17,137 --> 00:27:18,138 [message sends] 514 00:27:18,805 --> 00:27:19,973 [notification dings] 515 00:27:21,225 --> 00:27:23,310 They are making a connection. 516 00:27:23,393 --> 00:27:24,811 [keyboard keys clacking] 517 00:27:31,151 --> 00:27:34,196 They create the possibility of an intimate relationship. 518 00:27:37,491 --> 00:27:39,076 There's a real motivation 519 00:27:39,159 --> 00:27:42,079 and attraction for insecure people to do this 520 00:27:42,162 --> 00:27:47,042 because they, they get to sort of act, uh, confident and secure. 521 00:27:47,125 --> 00:27:50,003 [♪ slow suspenseful music playing] 522 00:27:51,171 --> 00:27:54,716 There's a, a significant psychological reward in it. 523 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,760 ♪♪ 524 00:27:58,929 --> 00:28:01,765 You're deceiving somebody and you're manipulating somebody 525 00:28:01,849 --> 00:28:04,309 and then having that power over them. 526 00:28:06,478 --> 00:28:10,524 Being in control, being able to get somebody to do 527 00:28:10,607 --> 00:28:14,278 basically what you want them to do or say what you want them to say, 528 00:28:14,361 --> 00:28:16,947 get them to wanna do things to please you. 529 00:28:17,030 --> 00:28:18,949 ♪♪ 530 00:28:24,121 --> 00:28:28,500 Once you taste that, it's like, "Oh, this is a really fabulous feeling. 531 00:28:28,584 --> 00:28:30,377 I feel good about myself." 532 00:28:30,460 --> 00:28:32,588 And so, you want to do that again. 533 00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:38,177 This could become an addiction. 534 00:28:40,679 --> 00:28:42,598 [Erin] Do you get a sense of Fegan's age and gender 535 00:28:42,681 --> 00:28:44,266 in these early exchanges? 536 00:28:44,349 --> 00:28:46,685 Female and young. 537 00:28:48,604 --> 00:28:51,356 Young women are particularly good at this kind of catfishing. 538 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,817 They have the social and emotional skills 539 00:28:53,901 --> 00:28:57,070 that basically make them really expert at this. 540 00:28:57,154 --> 00:28:59,615 [♪ slow suspenseful music continues] 541 00:29:03,535 --> 00:29:05,954 [Julie] After talking to their management, 542 00:29:06,705 --> 00:29:10,834 I just spent the entire week sending all of these documents, 543 00:29:10,918 --> 00:29:12,878 all of the chat logs that I could find, 544 00:29:12,961 --> 00:29:15,297 sending anything I could to help to Piers, 545 00:29:15,380 --> 00:29:19,635 because at this point it was-- my mind was just blown. 546 00:29:19,718 --> 00:29:21,637 It was like somebody punched me in the gut. 547 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,805 [keyboard keys clacking] 548 00:29:23,889 --> 00:29:26,767 [♪ solemn music playing] 549 00:29:31,146 --> 00:29:33,398 I was devastated, I was humiliated, 550 00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:36,193 I felt ashamed. 551 00:29:37,611 --> 00:29:40,113 It ruined, uh, their music for me for a long time. 552 00:29:40,197 --> 00:29:42,032 I didn't listen for a long time. 553 00:29:42,115 --> 00:29:44,868 ♪♪ 554 00:29:44,952 --> 00:29:47,663 I didn't travel to shows to meet up with people anymore. 555 00:29:49,373 --> 00:29:54,795 I became so paranoid that I cut most of my acquaintances out. 556 00:29:57,172 --> 00:30:00,551 There, there are really only a couple people I talk to this day 557 00:30:00,634 --> 00:30:02,177 from that time period that I trust 558 00:30:02,261 --> 00:30:03,929 because it was just too much for me. 559 00:30:04,763 --> 00:30:06,473 I just couldn't trust anybody. 560 00:30:06,557 --> 00:30:08,433 [♪ slow suspenseful music playing] 561 00:30:12,771 --> 00:30:15,107 But the fear, of course, was that we didn't know 562 00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:18,569 if this was just step one in some unfolding series of events 563 00:30:18,652 --> 00:30:20,153 that could get much worse. 564 00:30:20,237 --> 00:30:22,197 What if they did try to steal all our money? 565 00:30:22,281 --> 00:30:25,242 What if they did try to somehow get to me and Tegan? 566 00:30:25,325 --> 00:30:27,244 Or what if they did try to get to our partners? 567 00:30:27,327 --> 00:30:30,914 It immediately got into the-the-the fear of sort of physical safety. 568 00:30:31,331 --> 00:30:33,292 You know, someone with ill intent could show up 569 00:30:33,375 --> 00:30:34,376 at one of their houses. 570 00:30:34,459 --> 00:30:36,170 It totally felt like a stalker. 571 00:30:36,253 --> 00:30:38,255 [indistinct chatter] 572 00:30:40,424 --> 00:30:43,844 [Tegan] I felt so under attack, it just got worse. 573 00:30:44,469 --> 00:30:46,138 Tegan called me 574 00:30:47,055 --> 00:30:50,642 and she asked if I remembered the email I sent her 575 00:30:50,726 --> 00:30:54,938 asking for her password for her file sharing program 576 00:30:55,022 --> 00:30:56,732 and I was very confused. 577 00:30:56,815 --> 00:31:00,027 I didn't understand what she was talking about. 578 00:31:00,110 --> 00:31:03,280 And she's like, "Well, you asked me for my password 579 00:31:03,363 --> 00:31:04,531 for my file sharing." 580 00:31:04,615 --> 00:31:09,036 And I was like, "Absolutely not, I would never do that." 581 00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:12,080 And then I was informed that there were many emails 582 00:31:12,164 --> 00:31:15,584 coming from my email address to Tegan, 583 00:31:15,667 --> 00:31:17,586 which I obviously didn't send. 584 00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:20,088 There was one from my mum as well. 585 00:31:20,172 --> 00:31:23,592 And that felt, I mean, that just made me question everyone 586 00:31:23,675 --> 00:31:25,761 around me, my-- even my managers. 587 00:31:26,678 --> 00:31:29,765 It was terrible to be suspicious of people in my life that I loved. 588 00:31:31,767 --> 00:31:33,727 It felt like somebody had access 589 00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:38,023 to your personal thoughts, your relationships, 590 00:31:38,106 --> 00:31:41,735 and they had an ulterior motive, obviously. 591 00:31:41,818 --> 00:31:44,488 So they're not there to just be an observer. 592 00:31:44,571 --> 00:31:47,991 You know, they're there to take something and use it 593 00:31:48,075 --> 00:31:52,329 and potentially hurt people that I love and care about. 594 00:31:52,412 --> 00:31:54,748 Quickly, over the next few days 595 00:31:54,831 --> 00:31:56,792 it just became, we're all leaking. 596 00:31:56,875 --> 00:31:58,752 Like, our emails, our phones, like, I mean, who knows? 597 00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:00,796 I mean, we started to have conversations, like, 598 00:32:00,879 --> 00:32:03,131 "We need to get rid of our computers." 599 00:32:03,215 --> 00:32:06,260 At that point, like, if we're a house, 600 00:32:06,343 --> 00:32:08,470 I felt like someone might be in the yard, 601 00:32:08,554 --> 00:32:12,391 but suddenly I realized they were in the house with us. 602 00:32:12,474 --> 00:32:15,853 People who were very close to me all of a sudden were involved. 603 00:32:15,936 --> 00:32:17,938 [♪ dark, ominous music playing] 604 00:32:19,731 --> 00:32:25,320 I met Tegan early February 2006. 605 00:32:26,613 --> 00:32:28,574 A friend of Tegan and Sara's, he hit me up 606 00:32:28,657 --> 00:32:30,951 and said, "Hey, do you wanna be my plus-one 607 00:32:31,034 --> 00:32:32,786 at this Tegan and Sara show?" 608 00:32:33,287 --> 00:32:36,123 [♪ "Call It Off" by Tegan and Sara playing] 609 00:32:37,541 --> 00:32:39,042 [Tegan] Met Lindsey at a show 610 00:32:39,126 --> 00:32:43,046 and started a two-year pursuit of her. 611 00:32:44,423 --> 00:32:48,093 I was, like, mesmerized by her, it consumed my life. 612 00:32:48,677 --> 00:32:50,345 We just started exchanging long emails. 613 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,808 I thought, "This person is so cool." 614 00:32:57,019 --> 00:32:58,187 Really exciting, 615 00:32:58,729 --> 00:32:59,897 and also terrifying. 616 00:33:00,230 --> 00:33:02,441 We talked 1,000 times a day in, in text. 617 00:33:02,524 --> 00:33:04,067 It was, like, five hours on the phone. 618 00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:05,694 It was flirty. 619 00:33:06,195 --> 00:33:07,404 But then she didn't wanna date me. 620 00:33:08,113 --> 00:33:09,740 ♪ Call ♪ 621 00:33:09,823 --> 00:33:14,161 ♪ Break it off ♪ 622 00:33:14,244 --> 00:33:17,748 -♪ Call, break ♪ -♪ Call, break ♪ 623 00:33:17,831 --> 00:33:21,376 ♪ My own heart ♪ 624 00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:25,297 ♪ Maybe I would have been something you'd be good at ♪ 625 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:28,258 [Tegan] After years of pining for this person, 626 00:33:29,551 --> 00:33:31,720 we ended up actually starting to date 627 00:33:32,930 --> 00:33:35,807 and in that time wrote an album called The Con, 628 00:33:36,308 --> 00:33:40,437 about someone who I chased for years to try to convince them to date me. 629 00:33:41,605 --> 00:33:43,565 And I talked about it on stage. 630 00:33:44,066 --> 00:33:47,611 I was so desperately in love and obsessed at the same time. 631 00:33:47,694 --> 00:33:50,572 And I would, I would get up in the middle of the night. 632 00:33:50,656 --> 00:33:52,616 I would be waiting for a text from this person I liked, 633 00:33:52,699 --> 00:33:54,201 and I would get up in the middle of the night 634 00:33:54,284 --> 00:33:55,285 and there would be no text, 635 00:33:55,369 --> 00:33:56,912 so I would pop out the battery 636 00:33:56,995 --> 00:33:59,289 and restart my phone just in case. 637 00:33:59,373 --> 00:34:01,750 -[crew member laughs] -[audience cheering] 638 00:34:01,834 --> 00:34:05,879 But I think the heartbreak and mystery 639 00:34:05,963 --> 00:34:07,464 and devastation of The Con, 640 00:34:07,548 --> 00:34:10,634 made people feel like they had really gotten behind the curtain. 641 00:34:10,717 --> 00:34:12,553 ♪♪ 642 00:34:12,636 --> 00:34:14,304 [keyboard keys clacking] 643 00:34:14,388 --> 00:34:16,890 Fegan created emails for Lindsey. 644 00:34:19,434 --> 00:34:21,228 So there would be these exchanges 645 00:34:21,311 --> 00:34:24,231 where "Lindsey, Fake Lindsey," 646 00:34:26,066 --> 00:34:28,110 was talking to Fake Tegan, 647 00:34:29,236 --> 00:34:31,029 and they would copy in a victim. 648 00:34:32,823 --> 00:34:34,992 I was literally like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" 649 00:34:36,326 --> 00:34:38,871 And I was like, "Oh, my God." I mean, like, my stomach dropped. 650 00:34:40,289 --> 00:34:42,457 Lindsey was a public person herself, you know? 651 00:34:42,541 --> 00:34:45,460 She was a photographer, she'd been in a band. 652 00:34:45,544 --> 00:34:47,212 This is the person that I love. 653 00:34:47,296 --> 00:34:49,798 I just moved to a new country to be with her. 654 00:34:51,091 --> 00:34:53,802 You know, it was my whole life, 655 00:34:54,845 --> 00:34:58,307 like, feeling violated, feeling embarrassed, feeling angry, 656 00:34:58,390 --> 00:35:00,642 like, shutting right down but also feeling guilty, 657 00:35:01,685 --> 00:35:05,230 because I had spoken about her publicly. 658 00:35:10,319 --> 00:35:11,528 I felt very singled out, 659 00:35:11,612 --> 00:35:14,948 and that's a weird feeling as a twin, an identical twin 660 00:35:15,032 --> 00:35:17,701 where everything has been about we and us, 661 00:35:17,784 --> 00:35:21,705 and, and all of a sudden this was very much just... 662 00:35:22,706 --> 00:35:24,708 someone was obsessed with me, pretending to be me, 663 00:35:24,791 --> 00:35:27,669 my girlfriend, coming after my friend, stolen my demos. 664 00:35:28,837 --> 00:35:32,049 I feel like I'm out here searching for answers, 665 00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:36,470 um... like, defending myself alone. 666 00:35:36,553 --> 00:35:38,138 And it's not her fault, like, I don't mean alone 667 00:35:38,222 --> 00:35:39,389 'cause she's, like, abandoned me. 668 00:35:39,473 --> 00:35:41,600 It's just like what is she gonna do here? 669 00:35:41,683 --> 00:35:43,936 I just felt like a burden on everybody around me 670 00:35:44,019 --> 00:35:46,063 and I just was like, "Please make it stop." 671 00:35:46,146 --> 00:35:48,357 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 672 00:35:50,984 --> 00:35:53,445 So when we got as far as we could in the investigation, 673 00:35:53,529 --> 00:35:54,988 we did go to the police. 674 00:35:55,072 --> 00:35:57,991 There was an officer that we had dealt with in the past 675 00:35:58,075 --> 00:36:00,202 who advised us on... 676 00:36:01,286 --> 00:36:04,957 you know, situations that had come up with fans, obsessive fans. 677 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,000 He believed that we didn't have enough at that point 678 00:36:07,084 --> 00:36:09,336 to, you know, pursue criminal charges. 679 00:36:09,419 --> 00:36:15,008 The next step was to secure... our world. 680 00:36:15,092 --> 00:36:18,595 So, we brought in this cybersecurity expert 681 00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:21,890 to look into all the information we had 682 00:36:22,391 --> 00:36:25,310 and help us figure out who was pretending to be me. 683 00:36:25,686 --> 00:36:28,730 We quickly were able to establish 684 00:36:28,814 --> 00:36:30,649 that our manager's iDisk, 685 00:36:30,732 --> 00:36:34,611 like, where they stored a lot of documentation and information about us 686 00:36:34,695 --> 00:36:36,363 that, that it had been breached. 687 00:36:36,446 --> 00:36:40,242 We started analyzing the materials that Julie had shared with us, 688 00:36:40,325 --> 00:36:42,119 trying to figure out what was going on. 689 00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:46,206 One of the items was a forged tour document. 690 00:36:46,290 --> 00:36:47,749 ♪♪ 691 00:36:47,833 --> 00:36:49,585 [Piers] We got into the properties of that document 692 00:36:49,668 --> 00:36:52,254 and saw it had been created by a person. 693 00:36:52,337 --> 00:36:55,382 First name was Joanne who was based in the UK. 694 00:36:55,465 --> 00:37:00,179 And we quickly found a MySpace page that existed 695 00:37:00,262 --> 00:37:02,181 that was tied to a student in the UK 696 00:37:02,264 --> 00:37:05,434 that also listed Tegan and Sara as one of her musical interests. 697 00:37:06,185 --> 00:37:08,312 And so, we thought that we found her. 698 00:37:08,979 --> 00:37:11,773 Yay us, we, we found-- [laughing] we found Fegan. 699 00:37:11,857 --> 00:37:14,276 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 700 00:37:18,739 --> 00:37:21,575 [Piers] So, we believe we have this case solved essentially 701 00:37:21,658 --> 00:37:22,868 -within the first weekend. -[laughs] 702 00:37:22,951 --> 00:37:24,077 So, we're high-fiving ourselves. 703 00:37:24,161 --> 00:37:25,579 We're, we're detectives. 704 00:37:25,662 --> 00:37:28,498 We've got this basic trail of evidence leading us 705 00:37:28,582 --> 00:37:29,750 to Joanne in the UK, 706 00:37:30,375 --> 00:37:34,171 and then a few days later on Wednesday, May 25th, 707 00:37:34,254 --> 00:37:37,799 we got another email that shook us again. 708 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:42,596 -[Kim] This is from Jenny. -[Piers] The mom. 709 00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:44,723 ♪♪ 710 00:37:45,682 --> 00:37:48,393 [Kim] "I'm writing in regards to some very sinister things 711 00:37:48,477 --> 00:37:49,937 "that have been going on. 712 00:37:51,730 --> 00:37:54,399 "For the past week, my daughter's been receiving emails 713 00:37:54,483 --> 00:37:58,153 "from websites canceling accounts that she has not created. 714 00:37:58,237 --> 00:38:00,531 "Yesterday afternoon, she received an email 715 00:38:00,614 --> 00:38:02,282 from a MobileMe address." 716 00:38:02,366 --> 00:38:04,493 And that's the email that Fake Tegan's been using 717 00:38:04,576 --> 00:38:05,577 all along with Julie. 718 00:38:05,661 --> 00:38:08,830 Yes, and the email says, "Your fucked, sorry." 719 00:38:08,914 --> 00:38:09,915 [both laughing] 720 00:38:09,998 --> 00:38:12,417 -[Piers] I'll never forget that line. -[Kim] "You're" spelled, Y-O-U-R. 721 00:38:12,709 --> 00:38:13,710 -To boot. -Yeah. 722 00:38:13,794 --> 00:38:15,629 We felt the same way at the time. We were all fucked. 723 00:38:15,712 --> 00:38:17,422 Yeah, we all felt very fucked at this point. 724 00:38:21,051 --> 00:38:22,386 Oh, and it continues. 725 00:38:22,469 --> 00:38:25,472 This is what points us in a different direction for the first time. 726 00:38:25,556 --> 00:38:28,350 The first appearance... of Mark. 727 00:38:28,433 --> 00:38:30,769 This email purported to say 728 00:38:30,853 --> 00:38:33,647 that her daughter Joanne had been the victim of identity theft. 729 00:38:33,730 --> 00:38:36,775 That it was perpetrated by this guy, Mark, 730 00:38:36,859 --> 00:38:38,777 who was based in the US, in Maine. 731 00:38:38,861 --> 00:38:41,071 And so, for the first time we're hearing another name 732 00:38:41,154 --> 00:38:43,699 after we thought we had Joanne, 733 00:38:43,782 --> 00:38:47,286 all of a sudden it's pointing to, to Mark, a man who is American. 734 00:38:48,996 --> 00:38:50,831 Never forget reading that email and thinking, 735 00:38:50,914 --> 00:38:54,459 "Oh, my gosh, we are in a very crazy tangled web right now." 736 00:38:56,086 --> 00:38:58,755 [distorted glitching sounds] 737 00:38:58,839 --> 00:38:59,923 It wasn't outta the question 738 00:39:00,007 --> 00:39:01,884 that it could be a guy doing this, in fact. 739 00:39:01,967 --> 00:39:03,552 -Yeah. -But this again made us worried, 740 00:39:03,635 --> 00:39:05,721 because we also thought, "Where is this gonna end up? 741 00:39:05,804 --> 00:39:07,347 Is this a predator situation?" 742 00:39:07,431 --> 00:39:10,601 And so, we suddenly had two possible culprits now, 743 00:39:11,393 --> 00:39:14,938 and so, we decided to issue cease and desist letters 744 00:39:15,022 --> 00:39:16,773 to both Joanne and, and Mark. 745 00:39:16,899 --> 00:39:18,775 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 746 00:39:23,739 --> 00:39:26,366 This is when I just started absolutely... 747 00:39:27,534 --> 00:39:29,578 having my mind blown, 748 00:39:29,661 --> 00:39:33,749 was we received an email from a lawyer in the UK 749 00:39:34,374 --> 00:39:38,629 saying that that email that we thought was from Jenny was not. 750 00:39:39,505 --> 00:39:40,797 So, who sent that? 751 00:39:40,881 --> 00:39:43,133 [♪ suspenseful music continues] 752 00:39:47,179 --> 00:39:49,848 "Although my client's mother is called Jenny, 753 00:39:49,932 --> 00:39:53,018 "she was not responsible for sending the email 754 00:39:53,101 --> 00:39:56,313 received by your client managers on May 25th." 755 00:39:56,396 --> 00:39:58,106 ♪♪ 756 00:40:03,695 --> 00:40:05,113 Is this all a ruse? 757 00:40:05,197 --> 00:40:06,949 Is the law-- UK lawyer fake? 758 00:40:07,032 --> 00:40:08,617 Is Joanne doing this whole thing? 759 00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:10,118 Is she the ringleader? 760 00:40:10,202 --> 00:40:13,330 That was my-- my mind exploded and I said, "We know nothing. 761 00:40:13,413 --> 00:40:16,250 "We've been outfoxed, I'm in a Sandra Bullock movie, 762 00:40:16,333 --> 00:40:17,334 The Net." 763 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,087 I don't know that we understood what was happening. 764 00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:22,381 I mean, quite honestly, after speaking to the police 765 00:40:22,464 --> 00:40:23,882 and then our lawyers... 766 00:40:25,259 --> 00:40:27,803 you know, we just tossed a ton of cease and desists out there 767 00:40:27,886 --> 00:40:29,513 and hoped for the best. 768 00:40:29,596 --> 00:40:33,100 Honestly, I feel like we all were so fucked. 769 00:40:33,183 --> 00:40:35,477 [♪ solemn music playing] 770 00:40:41,817 --> 00:40:42,793 [♪ music fades out] 771 00:40:44,111 --> 00:40:46,905 I really blamed myself and I really felt responsible. 772 00:40:47,573 --> 00:40:50,826 And I do have to consistently remind myself 773 00:40:50,909 --> 00:40:52,327 that when this all started, 774 00:40:52,411 --> 00:40:54,371 I was really young 775 00:40:54,454 --> 00:40:57,499 and social media was young. 776 00:40:57,583 --> 00:41:00,460 [♪ soft somber music playing] 777 00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:07,551 Right outta high school we made a website 778 00:41:07,634 --> 00:41:10,512 and put an email address at it. 779 00:41:10,596 --> 00:41:12,097 I worked at a coffee shop in the mornings 780 00:41:12,181 --> 00:41:14,433 and then in the afternoon I would answer emails, 781 00:41:15,267 --> 00:41:18,854 and that was my first interaction with the Internet. 782 00:41:18,937 --> 00:41:21,773 Tegan and Sara, we have to remember were way ahead of the curve 783 00:41:21,857 --> 00:41:25,027 on social media and interacting with their fans 784 00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:27,446 and creating meaning between their fans. 785 00:41:28,739 --> 00:41:31,533 [Tegan] I was more of the extrovert of the band. 786 00:41:32,284 --> 00:41:35,871 I was very out there, I was very personable with fans. 787 00:41:36,371 --> 00:41:40,000 Always walking the lineup outside of the venue, 788 00:41:40,083 --> 00:41:42,085 standing at merch to talk to people. 789 00:41:42,169 --> 00:41:45,255 I-I never said no to taking photos or signing things 790 00:41:45,339 --> 00:41:47,549 or making a video saying "Happy Birthday" to your cousin. 791 00:41:47,633 --> 00:41:49,301 -Like, that was me. -...people from Dublin. 792 00:41:49,384 --> 00:41:52,054 [Tegan] Like, I had opened the door too wide 793 00:41:52,137 --> 00:41:54,765 and made it really believable that this person could be me. 794 00:41:57,893 --> 00:41:59,853 Tegan and I at the time, 795 00:41:59,937 --> 00:42:03,899 it wasn't that we didn't see eye to eye about our fan base in general. 796 00:42:03,982 --> 00:42:06,068 We loved our fan base, we loved touring. 797 00:42:06,151 --> 00:42:10,322 But I think the way that we learned to manage the downside of fame 798 00:42:10,405 --> 00:42:14,618 and the downside of, um, success was different. 799 00:42:14,701 --> 00:42:15,911 Tegan really leaned into it. 800 00:42:15,994 --> 00:42:18,455 She felt really like she owed it to the fans. 801 00:42:18,539 --> 00:42:20,165 Like, "It's fine." You know? 802 00:42:20,249 --> 00:42:23,210 Um, "I'll go out, I'll-I'll do it tonight, Sara, don't worry. 803 00:42:23,293 --> 00:42:26,380 I'll go sign for two hours next to the tour bus." 804 00:42:26,463 --> 00:42:28,465 I think everyone around me was kind of like, 805 00:42:28,882 --> 00:42:31,301 "Well, you're pretty open, you know, 806 00:42:31,385 --> 00:42:32,928 you're pretty friendly with everybody." 807 00:42:33,011 --> 00:42:35,514 And I thought that that was-- 808 00:42:35,597 --> 00:42:37,641 that's something about me that was, like, good. 809 00:42:37,975 --> 00:42:40,769 And then Fegan came along 810 00:42:40,853 --> 00:42:43,313 and I was like, "This is a bad thing about me. 811 00:42:43,397 --> 00:42:45,649 "This exposes me, this makes me vulnerable. 812 00:42:46,441 --> 00:42:48,402 "This made our whole organization vulnerable. 813 00:42:48,485 --> 00:42:52,823 This hurt so many people and so now I can't do that anymore." 814 00:42:53,657 --> 00:42:56,785 They pulled back big time, Sara especially, but Tegan too. 815 00:42:58,662 --> 00:43:00,581 This was also leading into the era 816 00:43:00,664 --> 00:43:04,209 of where they took another big leap in their popularity 817 00:43:04,293 --> 00:43:06,170 and it's, like, an inverse relationship. 818 00:43:06,253 --> 00:43:08,630 Like, the more fans you have, 819 00:43:08,714 --> 00:43:12,342 the less ability you have to be able to connect with them. 820 00:43:12,426 --> 00:43:16,346 We immediately introduced VIP, you know, ticketing. 821 00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:19,141 So, there was no more going out to merch table, 822 00:43:19,224 --> 00:43:21,351 no more standing in front of the buses signing things, 823 00:43:21,435 --> 00:43:23,687 no more walking the, the lineup. 824 00:43:23,770 --> 00:43:27,441 Like, I just created more of a formal process to, to, to connect. 825 00:43:27,524 --> 00:43:29,193 We had their names, their email addresses, 826 00:43:29,276 --> 00:43:31,153 there was a photo of each person that met us. 827 00:43:31,236 --> 00:43:32,404 It was just more controlled. 828 00:43:32,946 --> 00:43:36,033 And they were mad, like, they were upset. 829 00:43:36,116 --> 00:43:37,367 It really hurt their feelings. 830 00:43:37,451 --> 00:43:39,161 It was kind of a hard time to be a fan, 831 00:43:39,244 --> 00:43:41,747 as someone who had been around for a while. 832 00:43:41,830 --> 00:43:43,665 It felt like they were trying to go somewhere 833 00:43:43,749 --> 00:43:46,084 that we weren't going to fit anymore. 834 00:43:49,254 --> 00:43:52,090 [Tegan] This was the fan night at the recording studio in Vancouver. 835 00:43:52,174 --> 00:43:54,468 Yeah. It's, it's funny, 'cause a lot of these people, 836 00:43:54,551 --> 00:43:59,264 these are people who flew in from other, other cities 837 00:43:59,348 --> 00:44:01,058 but they're like so recognizable to us, 838 00:44:01,141 --> 00:44:04,102 'cause they were usually the people who were in the front row at concerts. 839 00:44:04,186 --> 00:44:05,437 Yeah, I threw this photo in, 840 00:44:05,521 --> 00:44:08,315 because, like, as much as this was a very stressful time 841 00:44:08,398 --> 00:44:10,192 and a time of so much change 842 00:44:10,776 --> 00:44:13,195 and violation in a lot of ways, 843 00:44:13,278 --> 00:44:15,155 it was also, like, a really fun time. 844 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,325 Please welcome back to the program Tegan and Sara. 845 00:44:18,408 --> 00:44:21,203 ♪ All I wanna get is ♪ 846 00:44:21,787 --> 00:44:24,456 ♪ A little bit closer ♪ 847 00:44:25,332 --> 00:44:27,960 ♪ All I wanna know is ♪ 848 00:44:28,544 --> 00:44:31,380 ♪ Can you come a little closer? ♪ 849 00:44:31,964 --> 00:44:38,011 ♪ Here comes the breath before we get a little bit closer ♪ 850 00:44:38,095 --> 00:44:39,888 -[Tegan] We started to do Late Night. -[Sara] Mm-hmm. 851 00:44:39,972 --> 00:44:41,974 [Tegan] We did Letterman, like, we did Jay Leno. 852 00:44:43,141 --> 00:44:46,436 We'd done a bookstore event, signing for hundreds of fans 853 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,188 and we'd had armed security. 854 00:44:49,648 --> 00:44:50,691 It was a different time. 855 00:44:50,774 --> 00:44:51,942 We were entering a different time. 856 00:44:52,025 --> 00:44:54,528 There was so much heat on us, it was just different. 857 00:44:54,611 --> 00:44:58,407 ♪ It's not just all physical ♪ 858 00:44:58,490 --> 00:45:01,785 ♪ I'm the type who won't get oh, so critical ♪ 859 00:45:01,869 --> 00:45:05,247 [Tegan] We saw our star rising, it was just meteoric. 860 00:45:05,330 --> 00:45:07,916 Thank you to all the fans who have stood by us 861 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,751 through all of our different incarnations. 862 00:45:09,835 --> 00:45:12,045 -[♪ "Closer" by Tegan and Sara playing] -[crowd cheering] 863 00:45:12,129 --> 00:45:15,382 ♪ I won't treat you like you're oh, so typical ♪ 864 00:45:15,465 --> 00:45:18,010 ♪ All I want to get is ♪ 865 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,013 ♪ A little bit closer ♪ 866 00:45:21,972 --> 00:45:23,098 [♪ song ends] 867 00:45:23,182 --> 00:45:25,267 [cheering] 868 00:45:25,350 --> 00:45:26,435 Thanks very much you guys. 869 00:45:26,518 --> 00:45:28,020 It was crazy and there was so much going on, 870 00:45:28,103 --> 00:45:30,772 but there was also an influx of wild, 871 00:45:31,565 --> 00:45:34,067 obsessive, unwell, 872 00:45:34,151 --> 00:45:36,820 stalker-y intrusive stuff that was happening. 873 00:45:36,904 --> 00:45:40,240 Our videos would leak online two nights before they premiered. 874 00:45:40,324 --> 00:45:43,243 Our record leaked online 24 hours before it came out. 875 00:45:43,785 --> 00:45:45,662 Everything we would get in our heads 876 00:45:45,746 --> 00:45:46,872 and be like, "Is it Fake Tegan?" 877 00:45:49,416 --> 00:45:51,627 But it wasn't until October of 2013 878 00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:54,171 that it became a focus again for us. 879 00:45:54,713 --> 00:45:56,798 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 880 00:45:59,635 --> 00:46:01,553 [ambient street noise] 881 00:46:02,971 --> 00:46:04,765 I was out for dinner with a bunch of friends, 882 00:46:05,557 --> 00:46:08,519 one of whom Rene, her account had been hacked. 883 00:46:10,437 --> 00:46:13,607 That night, I was giving an update about Fegan 884 00:46:14,608 --> 00:46:16,443 as I was sort of recounting where we had gotten 885 00:46:16,527 --> 00:46:17,903 with the, the Fake Tegan thing. 886 00:46:17,986 --> 00:46:20,572 The big thing being, like, there were multiple fans 887 00:46:20,656 --> 00:46:24,785 who'd been talking with Fegan for years, exchanging emails, 888 00:46:24,868 --> 00:46:27,704 photos, like, access, like, you know, they really proved they were me 889 00:46:27,788 --> 00:46:30,207 and Rene just got, like, the funniest look on her face. 890 00:46:31,291 --> 00:46:34,002 And her and her then girlfriend, they kinda kept looking at each-- 891 00:46:34,086 --> 00:46:37,297 I mean, it was clear something was happening for them in their head. 892 00:46:37,381 --> 00:46:38,882 It was like a light bulb went off. 893 00:46:39,383 --> 00:46:42,094 And she stopped me and she said... 894 00:46:44,012 --> 00:46:45,556 like, "It's so crazy what you're saying. 895 00:46:46,557 --> 00:46:47,891 "Like, Steph's been telling people 896 00:46:47,975 --> 00:46:50,644 that you've been having a secret relationship for years." 897 00:46:51,019 --> 00:46:53,981 Steph was someone we both knew in the Vancouver scene. 898 00:46:54,064 --> 00:46:55,274 My mind was blown. 899 00:46:55,357 --> 00:46:59,862 It was a-- just a awful moment, you know? 900 00:46:59,945 --> 00:47:01,947 I just remember my face, like, burning. 901 00:47:02,030 --> 00:47:04,783 This wasn't just a random person, this was a person I knew 902 00:47:04,867 --> 00:47:08,704 through multiple groups of friends who I'd socialized with, 903 00:47:08,787 --> 00:47:11,039 who I'd gone out for coffee with a couple times, 904 00:47:11,123 --> 00:47:13,750 who worked at the bar I hung out at. 905 00:47:15,752 --> 00:47:17,963 I was like, what a weird tale. 906 00:47:18,046 --> 00:47:21,216 I hadn't talked to her in years and I was like, "Oh, my God." 907 00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,302 And I just immediately went home and emailed my management 908 00:47:23,385 --> 00:47:26,763 and said, "I think this is, I think this is Fegan. 909 00:47:26,847 --> 00:47:29,308 I think Fegan's back and I think that they're in my email." 910 00:47:29,391 --> 00:47:32,269 [♪ soft, pensive music playing] 911 00:47:39,484 --> 00:47:41,945 [JT] I'm told that I was previously being referred to 912 00:47:42,029 --> 00:47:44,531 as Steph as nobody was sure 913 00:47:44,615 --> 00:47:46,200 if I was gonna be a part of this project. 914 00:47:49,286 --> 00:47:52,623 My name's actually JT and I'm a Vancouver musician. 915 00:47:55,167 --> 00:47:56,960 [Erin] How do you feel about the name Steph 916 00:47:57,044 --> 00:47:58,128 that I picked out for you? 917 00:47:59,296 --> 00:48:00,797 I am horrified. 918 00:48:00,881 --> 00:48:02,382 [crew members laughing] 919 00:48:03,175 --> 00:48:05,260 [♪ light music playing] 920 00:48:07,262 --> 00:48:10,974 I grew up in Edmonton, Alberta, partially in a group home. 921 00:48:12,226 --> 00:48:15,354 My mom ended up giving us away to social services. 922 00:48:16,647 --> 00:48:18,357 Once you put your kids in the system, 923 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,067 you pretty much can't get them back. 924 00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:22,986 ♪♪ 925 00:48:24,863 --> 00:48:27,366 Music for me was like the one thing that made sense. 926 00:48:29,660 --> 00:48:33,580 That was the only place that I could truly express 927 00:48:33,664 --> 00:48:35,165 what I was feeling in the moment. 928 00:48:35,249 --> 00:48:36,500 And it was, like, safe. 929 00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:40,879 As a young person when I first moved to Vancouver, 930 00:48:40,963 --> 00:48:44,341 like, I started working at the only lesbian bar that was here, 931 00:48:44,424 --> 00:48:48,512 just, like, working the door for, like, extra money on the weekends. 932 00:48:50,556 --> 00:48:52,891 It was definitely one of my first instances 933 00:48:52,975 --> 00:48:54,101 of a real community. 934 00:48:54,184 --> 00:48:56,937 It felt like I finally found, like, my people 935 00:48:57,604 --> 00:48:59,565 and, like, my space on this earth, you know? 936 00:48:59,648 --> 00:49:03,443 ♪♪ 937 00:49:03,527 --> 00:49:06,238 One day, my friend texted me... 938 00:49:07,322 --> 00:49:08,740 "Tegan's coming over for dinner. 939 00:49:08,824 --> 00:49:10,742 "I know that you mentioned that you liked her 940 00:49:10,826 --> 00:49:11,994 and I think you guys would vibe." 941 00:49:13,912 --> 00:49:15,581 At the time, Tegan and Sara, 942 00:49:15,664 --> 00:49:18,667 they were like a local lesbian band, 943 00:49:19,001 --> 00:49:20,586 and I found that interesting. 944 00:49:22,796 --> 00:49:25,215 So, I, like, went over there 945 00:49:25,299 --> 00:49:27,676 and I all, but pretty much ignored her, to be honest, 946 00:49:27,759 --> 00:49:31,263 because, like, I'm not very good in, like, situations 947 00:49:31,346 --> 00:49:32,931 like that where somebody's trying to, like, 948 00:49:33,015 --> 00:49:34,766 force me to meet somebody. 949 00:49:36,185 --> 00:49:39,229 But later on I got a text from Tegan being like, 950 00:49:39,313 --> 00:49:41,815 "Hey, like, let's connect and, like, hang out or something." 951 00:49:44,526 --> 00:49:47,029 [Erin] And so was the vibe friendly or sort of flirty? Like... 952 00:49:47,112 --> 00:49:49,406 I-- Like, at first, like, the first time that we met, 953 00:49:49,489 --> 00:49:50,991 it was, like, just, like, really friendly. 954 00:49:51,408 --> 00:49:54,286 It was nice, it was-- it felt normal, like, and chill 955 00:49:54,369 --> 00:49:56,371 and, like, we had, like, good conversation. 956 00:49:57,915 --> 00:50:00,501 She was really doing what I wanted to do, you know what I mean? 957 00:50:00,584 --> 00:50:02,753 Like, playing music and, like, traveling around doing it 958 00:50:02,836 --> 00:50:04,713 and I was like, "Oh, that's, like, really cool." 959 00:50:04,796 --> 00:50:06,173 So, it felt really grown up to me. 960 00:50:11,803 --> 00:50:14,056 [audience cheering] 961 00:50:15,766 --> 00:50:17,059 Thank you very much. 962 00:50:17,142 --> 00:50:19,728 [Erin] How would you keep in touch while Tegan was on the road? 963 00:50:20,938 --> 00:50:24,650 Back then it was just, like, more, like, common to, like, send emails 964 00:50:24,733 --> 00:50:27,194 to people than it was to, like, text a lot. 965 00:50:28,445 --> 00:50:30,906 [keyboard keys clacking] 966 00:50:39,831 --> 00:50:42,459 They were basically letters to each other. 967 00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:49,550 [whooshing] 968 00:50:52,636 --> 00:50:55,806 At some point, there was a natural break in the conversation 969 00:50:55,889 --> 00:50:57,558 where she was, like, on tour, 970 00:50:58,141 --> 00:51:00,769 and I was doing lots of music stuff and just busy. 971 00:51:00,853 --> 00:51:03,105 So, you know, eventually I reached out 972 00:51:03,188 --> 00:51:05,274 and was just like, "Hey, like, what's up? 973 00:51:05,357 --> 00:51:06,859 Like, haven't heard from you in a while." 974 00:51:06,942 --> 00:51:08,360 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 975 00:51:08,443 --> 00:51:10,362 [keyboard keys clacking] 976 00:51:21,331 --> 00:51:23,083 I got an email back saying 977 00:51:23,166 --> 00:51:26,003 that it was no longer the email that she was using. 978 00:51:27,921 --> 00:51:29,965 She also emailed me a different phone number 979 00:51:30,048 --> 00:51:31,592 to contact them with 980 00:51:31,675 --> 00:51:33,927 and I just figured their phone number changed. 981 00:51:35,929 --> 00:51:38,473 It didn't seem very, like, weird to me. 982 00:51:38,557 --> 00:51:43,061 The emails definitely emulated the same vibe, 983 00:51:43,145 --> 00:51:47,191 the same, uh, typing style, um, everything. 984 00:51:47,274 --> 00:51:50,402 Like, so it didn't set off any red flags inside me. 985 00:51:50,485 --> 00:51:52,404 [keyboard keys clacking] 986 00:51:58,243 --> 00:52:00,245 ♪♪ 987 00:52:07,878 --> 00:52:09,254 The emails did ramp up 988 00:52:09,338 --> 00:52:11,632 to being, like, less than really full letters anymore. 989 00:52:11,715 --> 00:52:13,675 It was more like a text message style. 990 00:52:14,218 --> 00:52:15,677 [keyboard keys clacking] 991 00:52:27,814 --> 00:52:31,818 In my mind I just figured, like, that seems normal 992 00:52:32,402 --> 00:52:35,531 because, like, when you start, like, talking to somebody like that, 993 00:52:35,614 --> 00:52:39,535 like, it just ends up being more frequent, you know? 994 00:52:39,618 --> 00:52:45,249 So, even, like, that didn't really feel strange at the time. 995 00:52:45,332 --> 00:52:48,001 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 996 00:52:48,919 --> 00:52:52,589 I would say when it turned, to, like, sexual, 997 00:52:53,006 --> 00:52:55,634 it caught me off guard for sure. 998 00:52:55,717 --> 00:52:57,719 ♪♪ 999 00:53:00,222 --> 00:53:03,058 But, I didn't really think twice about it. 1000 00:53:03,141 --> 00:53:05,769 In my mind, I was given the green light, 1001 00:53:06,854 --> 00:53:08,605 um, and I didn't need anything more. 1002 00:53:08,689 --> 00:53:11,108 [♪ suspenseful music continues] 1003 00:53:16,780 --> 00:53:18,323 I don't think it felt romantic at all. 1004 00:53:18,407 --> 00:53:21,493 No, it felt more... just sexual. 1005 00:53:21,577 --> 00:53:23,328 [keyboard keys clacking] 1006 00:53:25,789 --> 00:53:28,458 At this stage, I remember, like, eventually 1007 00:53:28,542 --> 00:53:31,253 just being really annoyed that we hadn't met up. 1008 00:53:31,336 --> 00:53:33,380 'Cause I had seen she was in Vancouver. 1009 00:53:33,463 --> 00:53:34,923 So, I got a little bit more bold 1010 00:53:35,007 --> 00:53:37,092 and I was like, "Why aren't we meeting up?" 1011 00:53:37,176 --> 00:53:39,845 [♪ soft somber music playing] 1012 00:53:47,895 --> 00:53:49,479 And basically being, like, the ultimatum, 1013 00:53:49,563 --> 00:53:52,107 like, "If you don't show up, I'm, like, not interested 1014 00:53:52,191 --> 00:53:55,152 in continuing to talk to you anymore because this is insane." 1015 00:53:55,903 --> 00:53:58,155 [keyboard keys clacking] 1016 00:54:10,876 --> 00:54:14,129 Ultimatum was made and then Tegan didn't show up, you know? 1017 00:54:14,213 --> 00:54:17,216 And then, the-- like, there was no explanation given at this point 1018 00:54:17,299 --> 00:54:18,592 and I was just like, "Listen, like, 1019 00:54:18,675 --> 00:54:22,471 "I'm, like, done having this, like, conversation back and forth. 1020 00:54:22,554 --> 00:54:23,972 This is doing nothing for me." 1021 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,767 I'm not gonna continue to talk to a ghost. 1022 00:54:29,895 --> 00:54:31,688 Not long after that happened, 1023 00:54:31,772 --> 00:54:34,358 Piers, which was Tegan's management at the time, 1024 00:54:34,441 --> 00:54:36,318 left me a voicemail. 1025 00:54:36,401 --> 00:54:39,696 It more or less said, "We're in the middle of this investigation about somebody 1026 00:54:39,780 --> 00:54:41,448 who's hacking Tegan's email." 1027 00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:44,368 Hearing that voicemail sent chills through my body. 1028 00:54:48,830 --> 00:54:51,583 I got in touch with her and did a call 1029 00:54:51,667 --> 00:54:54,294 and started exchanging emails much like we had done with Julie, 1030 00:54:55,212 --> 00:54:57,422 and, uh, there was again, yeah, 1031 00:54:57,506 --> 00:55:01,009 there was direct evidence that this, you know, 1032 00:55:01,093 --> 00:55:03,095 this person had been tricked by someone. 1033 00:55:03,178 --> 00:55:09,476 But, uh, Steph became increasingly unconvinced 1034 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,896 that I was on her side and that we were all victims. 1035 00:55:13,021 --> 00:55:17,651 The most shocking twist was Steph was like, 1036 00:55:17,734 --> 00:55:19,486 "No, this is Tegan, I know it's Tegan." 1037 00:55:19,570 --> 00:55:21,530 She said, "I believe you're protecting your client. 1038 00:55:21,613 --> 00:55:23,699 "Your client is demented 1039 00:55:23,782 --> 00:55:26,201 "and I've hired a private investigator. 1040 00:55:26,285 --> 00:55:28,704 They've concluded this really was your client." 1041 00:55:28,787 --> 00:55:31,540 And sort of, "Until you can prove otherwise, 1042 00:55:31,623 --> 00:55:32,749 I'm sticking by it." 1043 00:55:32,833 --> 00:55:36,253 [Erin] You had very little doubt that it wasn't Tegan the whole time. 1044 00:55:36,336 --> 00:55:38,964 Yeah, at that time, of course, I didn't, like, 1045 00:55:39,548 --> 00:55:41,175 I didn't have the foresight that I do now. 1046 00:55:41,258 --> 00:55:43,844 [Erin] Why did you say that you had hired a PI? 1047 00:55:44,636 --> 00:55:47,806 Um, at the time, like, I felt like I had to have something. 1048 00:55:47,890 --> 00:55:49,725 Like, she had somebody having her back 1049 00:55:49,808 --> 00:55:52,102 and I essentially felt alone, 1050 00:55:52,186 --> 00:55:53,896 I didn't have anybody on my side. 1051 00:55:53,979 --> 00:55:58,275 So, like, at the time I'm a young dumb kid who was like, 1052 00:55:58,358 --> 00:56:01,028 "I'm gonna say that I have a private investigator. 1053 00:56:01,403 --> 00:56:04,114 "So, maybe that, like, if there is something 1054 00:56:04,198 --> 00:56:05,991 "that they're, like, trying to hold back, 1055 00:56:06,074 --> 00:56:08,368 maybe they'll just freakin', like, say it." 1056 00:56:08,452 --> 00:56:11,663 I felt very small, so, what are you gonna do? 1057 00:56:11,747 --> 00:56:12,831 You have to fight. 1058 00:56:12,915 --> 00:56:14,541 [keyboard keys clacking] 1059 00:56:34,019 --> 00:56:36,313 [♪ solemn music playing] 1060 00:56:37,356 --> 00:56:39,733 Tegan and I knew each other in real life. 1061 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,778 She never reached out. 1062 00:56:42,861 --> 00:56:45,280 She never said, "I'm sorry." 1063 00:56:45,364 --> 00:56:48,367 She never gave me her side of the story. 1064 00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:51,578 The real human response to something like that, 1065 00:56:51,662 --> 00:56:55,707 no matter who you are, is to make sure the other person 1066 00:56:55,791 --> 00:57:00,504 who was involved in the wreck of this mess is okay. 1067 00:57:01,630 --> 00:57:03,423 Nobody made sure I was okay. 1068 00:57:05,551 --> 00:57:09,763 In 2014, JT was a stranger to me. 1069 00:57:10,180 --> 00:57:12,891 We hadn't physically seen each other in five or six years. 1070 00:57:14,184 --> 00:57:17,437 And then, within two weeks of finding out about JT, 1071 00:57:17,521 --> 00:57:19,106 JT was online talking shit 1072 00:57:19,189 --> 00:57:21,608 and saying I was a horrible person and coming after me. 1073 00:57:23,110 --> 00:57:27,322 Obviously, that made us all very reluctant to reach out to JT. 1074 00:57:27,406 --> 00:57:29,867 After that, a lot of people didn't wanna be around me, 1075 00:57:29,950 --> 00:57:32,703 because Vancouver's a small town and everybody talks. 1076 00:57:32,786 --> 00:57:34,788 Music is a small town, everybody talks. 1077 00:57:34,872 --> 00:57:36,206 It doesn't matter where you are. 1078 00:57:36,290 --> 00:57:39,126 A lot of people who I have never met in my life, 1079 00:57:39,209 --> 00:57:41,336 meeting for the first time knew about this shit. 1080 00:57:41,420 --> 00:57:44,464 They go, "Oh, you are JT." 1081 00:57:44,923 --> 00:57:48,260 And I knew exactly what that meant and I'd be like, "Oh, great, cool." 1082 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,472 Like, music spaces became uncomfortable for me. 1083 00:57:53,182 --> 00:57:54,683 I didn't wanna be even in queer spaces. 1084 00:57:54,766 --> 00:57:56,435 I still don't wanna be in queer spaces, 1085 00:57:56,518 --> 00:57:59,855 'cause I could feel people's conversations and their body language 1086 00:57:59,938 --> 00:58:03,942 and their energy change when I entered a room. 1087 00:58:04,985 --> 00:58:08,614 Like, do I wanna be in a space where I can feel people 1088 00:58:08,697 --> 00:58:12,367 actively feeling uncomfortable around me 1089 00:58:12,451 --> 00:58:15,913 because they think I'm a very, like, weird person 1090 00:58:15,996 --> 00:58:19,875 who makes up crazy stories and is a liar? 1091 00:58:19,958 --> 00:58:22,211 No. So, I stopped going anywhere. 1092 00:58:23,045 --> 00:58:24,796 I feel awful for JT. 1093 00:58:26,340 --> 00:58:29,092 I feel terrible, this has haunted her. 1094 00:58:29,176 --> 00:58:32,179 She felt, it's clear to me, embarrassed 1095 00:58:32,262 --> 00:58:34,431 and violated by this experience. 1096 00:58:35,516 --> 00:58:37,768 But during the course of that time, 1097 00:58:37,851 --> 00:58:43,607 my relationship with Lindsey... dissolved, 1098 00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:45,484 and my mum's sister was dying 1099 00:58:45,567 --> 00:58:48,320 and this Fake Tegan thing had come up again 1100 00:58:48,403 --> 00:58:52,449 and it just felt so horrible. 1101 00:58:53,534 --> 00:58:55,911 It was just really very overwhelming. 1102 00:58:55,994 --> 00:59:00,457 And I believe in my heart that even if at that time 1103 00:59:00,541 --> 00:59:03,418 I went and talked to her, she would've just been like, "You're lying." 1104 00:59:05,087 --> 00:59:06,964 We're victims of the same person. 1105 00:59:08,382 --> 00:59:11,385 And it's hung over both of us. 1106 00:59:17,808 --> 00:59:19,852 [pages rustle] 1107 00:59:19,935 --> 00:59:21,645 Right from the beginning there was sort of like, 1108 00:59:21,728 --> 00:59:24,064 suspicion on, on the people in our lives, you know? 1109 00:59:24,147 --> 00:59:25,232 [Sara] Mm-hmm. 1110 00:59:25,315 --> 00:59:26,859 I was under the impression based on 1111 00:59:26,942 --> 00:59:29,486 how much personal information that they had, that... 1112 00:59:29,945 --> 00:59:30,988 It was someone we knew. 1113 00:59:31,071 --> 00:59:32,072 Well, someone we knew 1114 00:59:32,155 --> 00:59:34,283 or someone you had told really personal things 1115 00:59:34,366 --> 00:59:35,951 about me and Mom, 1116 00:59:36,034 --> 00:59:37,953 and, and I remember thinking, 1117 00:59:38,495 --> 00:59:42,416 um, the only, only way that somebody would know any of that 1118 00:59:42,499 --> 00:59:44,585 was if they either knew you 1119 00:59:44,668 --> 00:59:47,754 or they were like directly in your email. 1120 00:59:48,422 --> 00:59:50,048 -Right. -Like, actually in your email. 1121 00:59:50,132 --> 00:59:51,967 Because the only way they would know about our-- 1122 00:59:52,050 --> 00:59:54,178 like, mom having cancer or who I was dating, 1123 00:59:54,261 --> 00:59:55,470 like, those kinds of things, 1124 00:59:55,554 --> 00:59:57,639 to me that felt like casual conversation. 1125 00:59:57,723 --> 00:59:59,391 But when I actually went through 1126 00:59:59,474 --> 01:00:04,646 and read some of the conversation between Fegan and Julie, 1127 01:00:05,063 --> 01:00:07,649 I realized that they didn't know anything. 1128 01:00:07,733 --> 01:00:09,526 It was, like, more, like, headline information. 1129 01:00:09,610 --> 01:00:10,611 Yeah. 1130 01:00:10,694 --> 01:00:14,573 And so, that is when I realized that this was a fan 1131 01:00:15,073 --> 01:00:19,286 talking to other fans and that these people did not know us. 1132 01:00:19,369 --> 01:00:21,496 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1133 01:00:24,791 --> 01:00:27,294 [Tegan] Tegan and Sara fan base is so fuckin' dope. 1134 01:00:28,295 --> 01:00:30,756 I-I know Tegan and Sara fans who got a passport explicitly 1135 01:00:30,839 --> 01:00:31,840 so they could go and travel 1136 01:00:31,924 --> 01:00:33,675 with the friends they met through our fan base. 1137 01:00:34,510 --> 01:00:38,472 People who hadn't left their house to go see a concert in a decade, 1138 01:00:38,555 --> 01:00:40,724 who befriended people through message boards 1139 01:00:40,807 --> 01:00:43,560 and then decided they were brave enough to go to a concert. 1140 01:00:45,562 --> 01:00:47,272 I know people who've gotten married 1141 01:00:47,356 --> 01:00:49,525 because they met at our shows or on message boards. 1142 01:00:51,485 --> 01:00:53,612 But you get to a certain size 1143 01:00:53,695 --> 01:00:55,739 and a certain part of your fan base gets so intense, 1144 01:00:55,822 --> 01:00:57,324 they ruin it for everybody else. 1145 01:00:57,407 --> 01:01:00,452 ♪♪ 1146 01:01:00,536 --> 01:01:03,163 [Jenny] With music, you can really project 1147 01:01:03,288 --> 01:01:06,375 your own storyline onto a song 1148 01:01:06,458 --> 01:01:10,504 and you can really believe that the lyrics understand you. 1149 01:01:12,130 --> 01:01:15,843 It gives people a lot of room to form these ideas 1150 01:01:15,926 --> 01:01:18,428 about the artist based on their music. 1151 01:01:18,512 --> 01:01:20,681 It's easy to lose sight of the fact that 1152 01:01:20,764 --> 01:01:25,060 that is a tiny fraction of what a person's about. 1153 01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:28,313 You know, in these days they're talking about parasocial relationships. 1154 01:01:28,397 --> 01:01:31,441 Like, people really thought that they knew Tegan and Sara. 1155 01:01:35,946 --> 01:01:38,156 [Jenny] It's a trope, you know, to be in an audience 1156 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,827 and to be convinced that the person on stage is looking at you 1157 01:01:42,452 --> 01:01:45,163 and the person next to you thinks that they're looking at them too. 1158 01:01:45,247 --> 01:01:50,210 There's a need to be validated that the artist knows you exist. 1159 01:01:50,919 --> 01:01:55,674 I know a lot of... queer famous people 1160 01:01:55,757 --> 01:01:57,593 and so a common thing we all talk about 1161 01:01:57,676 --> 01:01:59,845 is that there's these awful toxic message boards 1162 01:01:59,928 --> 01:02:02,973 where the people who seem to love and be obsessed with you the most, 1163 01:02:03,056 --> 01:02:04,975 are the most cruel and mean and shitty. 1164 01:02:05,809 --> 01:02:08,187 They were breeding grounds for obsession. 1165 01:02:08,812 --> 01:02:11,440 "We want more, we need more, it's not enough." 1166 01:02:11,523 --> 01:02:14,318 "Why don't they come and stand outside? Why don't they talk to us longer?" 1167 01:02:14,401 --> 01:02:16,153 "Why don't they tell us more about their lives?" 1168 01:02:16,778 --> 01:02:19,656 But they always have so much information about you 1169 01:02:19,740 --> 01:02:21,491 and you're like, "Who the fuck?" 1170 01:02:21,575 --> 01:02:22,576 [cheering] 1171 01:02:22,659 --> 01:02:25,287 [Lindsey Byrnes] Tegan and Sara fans were dedicated. 1172 01:02:26,205 --> 01:02:29,333 What it felt like to me was that they did not like me, 1173 01:02:30,042 --> 01:02:35,130 and they wanted to date my girlfriend. 1174 01:02:35,255 --> 01:02:36,965 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1175 01:02:40,385 --> 01:02:44,264 I didn't understand how these people, like, knew things about me, 1176 01:02:44,348 --> 01:02:46,391 like, personal stuff. 1177 01:02:46,475 --> 01:02:48,810 [keyboard keys clacking] 1178 01:02:48,894 --> 01:02:52,231 I already felt really protective over my girlfriend, 1179 01:02:52,314 --> 01:02:54,399 who was a total normie, who was like, 1180 01:02:54,483 --> 01:02:58,362 "Why are your fans, like, posting my dad's home address 1181 01:02:58,445 --> 01:02:59,738 on the ZetaBoards or whatever?" 1182 01:02:59,821 --> 01:03:00,948 And I was like, "I don't know." 1183 01:03:01,031 --> 01:03:02,449 Like, I don't know how to explain this. 1184 01:03:02,533 --> 01:03:03,867 It was so weird to me. 1185 01:03:03,951 --> 01:03:05,869 It was easy to joke about it or laugh about it, 1186 01:03:05,953 --> 01:03:07,579 but at some point it really hurt. 1187 01:03:08,163 --> 01:03:11,291 Unverified information could really be asserted 1188 01:03:11,375 --> 01:03:13,252 as if it was accurate and spread, 1189 01:03:13,335 --> 01:03:15,963 and misinformation could spread really easily. 1190 01:03:16,046 --> 01:03:17,506 [keyboard keys clacking] 1191 01:03:20,050 --> 01:03:22,261 Some of this is because the Internet, you know, 1192 01:03:22,344 --> 01:03:26,056 depersonalizes things and we see people as avatars, 1193 01:03:26,139 --> 01:03:30,352 and we see ourselves as being able to hide behind a handle. 1194 01:03:30,435 --> 01:03:32,229 And it's easy to forget that there's a real person 1195 01:03:32,312 --> 01:03:33,480 who's gonna read that sentence 1196 01:03:33,564 --> 01:03:37,109 who might be genuinely frightened by it. 1197 01:03:37,192 --> 01:03:39,236 People were cruel about our girlfriends, 1198 01:03:39,319 --> 01:03:41,363 mean about our friends, shitty about us. 1199 01:03:41,446 --> 01:03:43,824 It's weird, fan culture is so strange. 1200 01:03:43,907 --> 01:03:46,118 Behaviors that fans engage in 1201 01:03:46,201 --> 01:03:50,497 and support amongst each other are on a spectrum 1202 01:03:50,581 --> 01:03:55,419 that slide into really dysfunctional behavior really fast. 1203 01:03:55,502 --> 01:03:57,129 [audience cheering] 1204 01:03:57,754 --> 01:04:00,591 The competitiveness in fan groups, the entitlement, 1205 01:04:00,674 --> 01:04:03,343 the possessiveness, the elitism. 1206 01:04:03,427 --> 01:04:05,220 [screaming, cheering] 1207 01:04:05,304 --> 01:04:10,559 But I've been, like, pinched, kissed, fondled, grabbed, carried, 1208 01:04:10,642 --> 01:04:12,102 trying to carry me outta the venue. 1209 01:04:12,186 --> 01:04:16,106 People have gotten on stage and bear hugged Sara, taken her down. 1210 01:04:16,190 --> 01:04:18,817 I've been followed home. 1211 01:04:18,901 --> 01:04:22,738 We've driven around for an hour before to lose people on our way to hotels, 1212 01:04:22,821 --> 01:04:24,448 I've had people show up at my hotel. 1213 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,911 Those barricades and security people 1214 01:04:30,579 --> 01:04:33,415 you see at venues, you know, like, they're there for a reason. 1215 01:04:34,082 --> 01:04:38,128 There were a lot of fans who wanted to be part of, 1216 01:04:38,212 --> 01:04:39,963 who wanted a piece of Tegan and Sara. 1217 01:04:40,047 --> 01:04:43,550 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1218 01:04:44,927 --> 01:04:48,263 Fan culture has existed for hundreds of years. 1219 01:04:50,849 --> 01:04:51,850 Stay where you are. 1220 01:04:53,185 --> 01:04:56,104 Famously, when Sherlock Holmes was killed off... 1221 01:04:56,188 --> 01:04:57,189 [gunshot] 1222 01:04:57,272 --> 01:04:58,982 [Jenny] ...people protested in the streets. 1223 01:05:01,318 --> 01:05:03,487 You know, in pop music with fan armies 1224 01:05:03,570 --> 01:05:08,283 where they will dox people and threaten people 1225 01:05:08,367 --> 01:05:10,452 because they expressed an opinion 1226 01:05:10,536 --> 01:05:14,706 that the group decides together is unacceptable. 1227 01:05:14,790 --> 01:05:20,087 ♪♪ 1228 01:05:20,170 --> 01:05:23,924 And the term, "stan" as a description of superfans 1229 01:05:24,007 --> 01:05:25,342 who've gone a little too far 1230 01:05:25,425 --> 01:05:29,054 is thought to be, uh, an amalgam of "stalker" and "fans" 1231 01:05:30,347 --> 01:05:31,390 "stan." 1232 01:05:32,099 --> 01:05:33,976 People might not realize that "stan" 1233 01:05:34,059 --> 01:05:35,394 is the Eminem song, Stan. 1234 01:05:36,353 --> 01:05:39,106 ♪ Dear Slim, I wrote you, but you still ain't callin' ♪ 1235 01:05:39,189 --> 01:05:41,692 ♪ I left my cell, my pager and my home phone at the bottom ♪ 1236 01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:44,069 ♪ I sent two letters back in autumn ♪ 1237 01:05:44,152 --> 01:05:45,279 ♪ You must not’ve got ’em... ♪ 1238 01:05:45,362 --> 01:05:48,532 [Jenny] It tells the story of a fan named Stan 1239 01:05:48,615 --> 01:05:50,993 who writes Eminem a series of letters. 1240 01:05:53,203 --> 01:05:57,165 He's so outraged that Eminem's not responding to him, 1241 01:05:57,249 --> 01:05:59,543 that he murders his girlfriend. 1242 01:05:59,626 --> 01:06:02,421 [♪ dark, solemn music playing] 1243 01:06:10,637 --> 01:06:15,934 And now, when you're proclaiming yourself the best fan, 1244 01:06:16,018 --> 01:06:18,061 you call yourself a stan. 1245 01:06:18,645 --> 01:06:20,189 You're proud to be a stan. 1246 01:06:20,272 --> 01:06:22,524 ♪♪ 1247 01:06:22,608 --> 01:06:24,109 That's deranged. 1248 01:06:27,779 --> 01:06:29,406 In any artist's fandom, 1249 01:06:29,489 --> 01:06:32,701 the vast majority of people are casual fans. 1250 01:06:32,784 --> 01:06:35,495 [♪ dark, solemn music continues] 1251 01:06:40,292 --> 01:06:44,046 But there's no denying that there's a portion of fans 1252 01:06:44,129 --> 01:06:48,091 who are, you know, what you might call pathological, 1253 01:06:49,092 --> 01:06:51,428 people who are dangerous. 1254 01:06:51,512 --> 01:06:53,222 [newscaster] He told the officer he will do 1255 01:06:53,347 --> 01:06:55,015 whatever it takes to be with Katy Perry. 1256 01:06:55,641 --> 01:06:57,351 [officer] Put your hands on the wall. 1257 01:07:08,070 --> 01:07:09,071 [imitates gunshot] 1258 01:07:09,154 --> 01:07:10,822 [♪ dark music playing] 1259 01:07:12,699 --> 01:07:14,076 [♪ music fades out] 1260 01:07:14,159 --> 01:07:15,619 [birds chirping] 1261 01:07:18,163 --> 01:07:20,249 -[Tegan] -Hi. How's it going? -[Jacqi] Hi. Good, how are you? 1262 01:07:20,332 --> 01:07:21,333 -I'm Tegan. -I'm Jacqi. 1263 01:07:21,416 --> 01:07:22,417 [both] Nice to meet you. 1264 01:07:22,501 --> 01:07:24,253 -[Tegan] I love your overalls. -[Jacqi] Thank you. 1265 01:07:25,754 --> 01:07:27,840 A few weeks ago your producers on this documentary 1266 01:07:27,923 --> 01:07:29,258 reached out to me. 1267 01:07:29,550 --> 01:07:31,635 They had the email that I sent your management back then 1268 01:07:31,718 --> 01:07:32,970 about this whole situation 1269 01:07:33,053 --> 01:07:34,930 and the Fake Tegan, 1270 01:07:35,264 --> 01:07:38,517 I wanted to just let you know the information that I had. 1271 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:39,601 Whoa. 1272 01:07:39,685 --> 01:07:40,978 I didn't have the whole conversation, 1273 01:07:41,061 --> 01:07:43,272 but these were the initial texts. Very-- 1274 01:07:43,355 --> 01:07:45,941 Okay. Okay, so this is the first, this is the first text. 1275 01:07:46,024 --> 01:07:47,317 -That's right. -"Fantastic job." 1276 01:07:47,442 --> 01:07:49,236 [♪ slow suspenseful music playing] 1277 01:07:56,076 --> 01:07:57,619 "I could have the wrong number. Who's this?" 1278 01:07:57,703 --> 01:07:59,496 -Good. Play coy. I like it. -[Jacqi chuckles] 1279 01:07:59,580 --> 01:08:00,956 "This is Tegan, do I know you?" 1280 01:08:01,081 --> 01:08:03,000 [♪ suspenseful music continues] 1281 01:08:12,426 --> 01:08:14,887 So when Piers, our manager, reached out 1282 01:08:14,970 --> 01:08:17,598 and said that it wasn't me, 1283 01:08:17,681 --> 01:08:19,892 did you ever reach out to Fegan again? 1284 01:08:19,975 --> 01:08:22,644 Like, did you reach out and say like, the jig's up? 1285 01:08:22,728 --> 01:08:24,104 I didn't text them right away. 1286 01:08:24,188 --> 01:08:26,773 I kind of just like, let it go. 1287 01:08:26,857 --> 01:08:30,861 It was like, "I wanna bury this 'cause this is weird and embarrassing 1288 01:08:30,944 --> 01:08:32,196 and I don't wanna think about it anymore." 1289 01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:33,405 [Tegan] Yeah, it's horrible. 1290 01:08:34,156 --> 01:08:36,491 [Jacqi] And then in 2014 on Tumblr, 1291 01:08:36,575 --> 01:08:39,620 this page popped up out of nowhere. 1292 01:08:39,703 --> 01:08:42,206 ♪♪ 1293 01:08:42,289 --> 01:08:43,415 Gained a lot of attention. 1294 01:08:43,498 --> 01:08:46,919 -It was just one picture of your face. -[Tegan] Yeah. 1295 01:08:47,002 --> 01:08:49,755 [Jacqi] And, like, a couch in the background. 1296 01:08:51,048 --> 01:08:53,342 It said something like, "10:00 a.m. tomorrow, 1297 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:55,344 "I'm releasing a lot of information 1298 01:08:55,427 --> 01:08:56,970 that you're gonna wanna know about Tegan." 1299 01:08:57,054 --> 01:08:58,514 -Damn. -[Jacqi] There's, like, a countdown. 1300 01:08:58,597 --> 01:09:01,183 So, everyone was like, "What? What's going on? Who is this person?" 1301 01:09:01,266 --> 01:09:02,851 And then the next day at 10:00 a.m. 1302 01:09:02,935 --> 01:09:07,439 they dropped all of these demos that were unreleased, 1303 01:09:07,564 --> 01:09:09,691 pictures of you that seemed pretty personal. 1304 01:09:12,236 --> 01:09:15,322 They said that you had a relationship with them for three years. 1305 01:09:15,405 --> 01:09:17,699 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1306 01:09:26,792 --> 01:09:28,168 I was immediately suspicious. 1307 01:09:28,252 --> 01:09:30,170 So, I DM'd them. 1308 01:09:31,839 --> 01:09:33,924 Their name was Tara, and we started talking. 1309 01:09:35,634 --> 01:09:37,344 [Tegan] It's a fact-finding mission at this point. 1310 01:09:37,427 --> 01:09:40,931 Yeah. I just said, "I have also been in contact with this number. 1311 01:09:41,014 --> 01:09:43,684 And then management called me and said that it wasn't Tegan." 1312 01:09:43,767 --> 01:09:45,727 [♪ mysterious music playing] 1313 01:09:47,229 --> 01:09:49,898 And they instantly were like, "That's a lie, that's a cover-up." 1314 01:10:01,910 --> 01:10:05,289 We started talking about their experience 1315 01:10:05,372 --> 01:10:06,790 and their relationship with you. 1316 01:10:06,874 --> 01:10:10,627 They told me they had run a fan fiction account about you and Sara, 1317 01:10:10,711 --> 01:10:12,629 and you were on the fan fiction account. 1318 01:10:13,130 --> 01:10:14,965 They were saying that you were a monster 1319 01:10:15,048 --> 01:10:17,509 and you were abusive and you had played them 1320 01:10:17,593 --> 01:10:21,096 and that you were just abusing all of your underage fans. 1321 01:10:21,471 --> 01:10:23,307 They wanted revenge and justice. 1322 01:10:23,807 --> 01:10:26,393 So, they had the intention of going to the show 1323 01:10:26,476 --> 01:10:29,271 to stare you down and intimidate you. 1324 01:10:29,354 --> 01:10:30,772 -That's fucking creepy. -Yeah. [chuckles] 1325 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:33,692 So, we're going back and forth for a bit. 1326 01:10:33,775 --> 01:10:35,903 And then I got this whole long message 1327 01:10:35,986 --> 01:10:39,615 from this moderator on a Tegan and Sara chat site 1328 01:10:39,698 --> 01:10:42,409 about all of this awful stuff that this person used to do. 1329 01:10:42,492 --> 01:10:45,579 "This insane diabolical bitch started a war with me 1330 01:10:45,662 --> 01:10:49,208 "and my friend about three years ago after an encounter on .ca. 1331 01:10:49,291 --> 01:10:51,502 "She was the creator of the original Quincest LiveJournal, 1332 01:10:51,585 --> 01:10:53,629 "which was open to the public and was incredibly offensive, 1333 01:10:53,712 --> 01:10:54,963 and, I mean, really bad." 1334 01:10:55,047 --> 01:10:56,965 [keyboard keys clacking] 1335 01:10:57,925 --> 01:11:00,427 There were these message boards with incest 1336 01:11:00,511 --> 01:11:03,013 fan fiction sexualizing us. 1337 01:11:03,096 --> 01:11:04,681 [keyboard keys clacking] 1338 01:11:04,765 --> 01:11:06,683 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1339 01:11:09,394 --> 01:11:10,729 It was gross. 1340 01:11:11,438 --> 01:11:13,690 "I called her out on it, putting pressure on her to delete it 1341 01:11:13,774 --> 01:11:14,983 "or at least make it private. 1342 01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,445 "She flipped out, going from a previously very likable 1343 01:11:18,529 --> 01:11:23,033 "and intelligent poster on .ca to someone with multiple IPs, 1344 01:11:23,116 --> 01:11:24,618 "emails and personalities. 1345 01:11:24,701 --> 01:11:26,495 She's diabolically good at lying." 1346 01:11:26,578 --> 01:11:27,704 Yeesh. 1347 01:11:28,163 --> 01:11:30,415 That's, um, that's rough. 1348 01:11:30,499 --> 01:11:32,668 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1349 01:11:33,502 --> 01:11:35,504 [keyboard keys clacking] 1350 01:11:40,968 --> 01:11:44,054 And I just always go back to the email exchange with our management 1351 01:11:44,137 --> 01:11:46,014 where this person went from being like, 1352 01:11:46,098 --> 01:11:47,975 "I'll help you find Fegan," 1353 01:11:48,058 --> 01:11:52,271 to accusing me and being really aggressive and, and angry. 1354 01:11:53,188 --> 01:11:54,940 [keyboard keys clacking] 1355 01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:05,784 Like, all of it feels very, very strange. 1356 01:12:07,411 --> 01:12:10,247 Tara is a person that reached out to me. 1357 01:12:10,330 --> 01:12:14,668 I-- Probably in response to one of my angry tweets about Tegan 1358 01:12:14,751 --> 01:12:20,132 saying that they also received some sort of, like, attention from Tegan. 1359 01:12:20,215 --> 01:12:21,675 They tried to be really friendly with me. 1360 01:12:21,758 --> 01:12:23,802 It felt like they were trying to connect with me 1361 01:12:23,886 --> 01:12:26,889 and be like, "Oh, the same thing is happening to me." 1362 01:12:26,972 --> 01:12:28,473 And-- But something felt weird about it, 1363 01:12:29,683 --> 01:12:32,561 because they kept on trying to bring Tegan up all the time. 1364 01:12:34,104 --> 01:12:36,607 They became very aggressive very fast 1365 01:12:36,690 --> 01:12:38,192 and tried to, like, message me a lot. 1366 01:12:39,776 --> 01:12:41,612 It's like they wanted to be a part of my life. 1367 01:12:41,695 --> 01:12:43,280 I could feel that very much. 1368 01:12:43,739 --> 01:12:45,073 And I eventually had to just say like, 1369 01:12:45,157 --> 01:12:46,700 "Hey, stop messaging me about this. 1370 01:12:46,783 --> 01:12:48,660 "I literally don't wanna think about it. 1371 01:12:48,744 --> 01:12:50,746 Like, it's over, fuck off." 1372 01:12:52,039 --> 01:12:55,584 [Lindsey] I remember meeting them at the Newport Folk Festival. 1373 01:12:57,794 --> 01:13:01,673 They seemed like a fan and curious 1374 01:13:01,757 --> 01:13:04,718 and not dangerous. 1375 01:13:04,801 --> 01:13:06,637 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1376 01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:08,347 [keyboard keys clacking] 1377 01:13:12,976 --> 01:13:14,186 It was a student. 1378 01:13:15,854 --> 01:13:18,732 I was nice. You know, professional. 1379 01:13:19,608 --> 01:13:21,610 But she became unstoppable. 1380 01:13:21,693 --> 01:13:23,237 [keyboard keys clacking] 1381 01:13:32,037 --> 01:13:35,666 And then I got a call from her and they said, 1382 01:13:35,749 --> 01:13:38,085 "I need you to know that Tegan 1383 01:13:38,168 --> 01:13:40,504 "has been having relationships with fans, 1384 01:13:40,587 --> 01:13:42,798 multiple fans for years." 1385 01:13:44,591 --> 01:13:47,511 I mean, my initial reaction was like, "No, she wasn't." 1386 01:13:48,262 --> 01:13:51,223 We were, like, breaking up at this point, you know? 1387 01:13:52,182 --> 01:13:55,477 This person was, like, 1388 01:13:56,186 --> 01:13:57,938 thinking that they had done it. 1389 01:13:58,021 --> 01:14:00,399 They had told me this stuff and then we were breaking up. 1390 01:14:00,482 --> 01:14:03,694 So, I was like, "Oh, God, really?" You know? 1391 01:14:03,777 --> 01:14:05,779 I did not wanna engage with this person. 1392 01:14:09,116 --> 01:14:10,784 Breakups are painful, 1393 01:14:11,493 --> 01:14:12,870 but this was just wild. 1394 01:14:12,953 --> 01:14:15,539 ♪♪ 1395 01:14:17,457 --> 01:14:19,459 Whether they knew or not that we were breaking up, 1396 01:14:19,543 --> 01:14:23,630 it was unbelievably cruel and shitty thing to do to Lindsey. 1397 01:14:24,673 --> 01:14:26,592 It's just salt in the wound, you know? 1398 01:14:26,675 --> 01:14:29,094 It was fucked up, like, I was like, "This is really fucked up. 1399 01:14:29,178 --> 01:14:30,679 "This is, like, a real breach of privacy. 1400 01:14:30,762 --> 01:14:32,514 Like get a fuckin' life," you know? 1401 01:14:32,598 --> 01:14:34,349 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1402 01:14:37,895 --> 01:14:42,191 [JT] At one point, I emailed the Fake Tegan email 1403 01:14:42,649 --> 01:14:43,901 and it kicked back 1404 01:14:43,984 --> 01:14:46,862 and in the code it actually said Tara's name. 1405 01:14:46,945 --> 01:14:49,239 [distorted glitching sounds] 1406 01:14:49,323 --> 01:14:54,953 So, I messaged Tara and said, "Hey, like, is this serious? 1407 01:14:55,037 --> 01:14:57,414 "Has this, like, always been you? 1408 01:14:57,497 --> 01:14:59,791 This is complete insanity." 1409 01:14:59,875 --> 01:15:01,585 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1410 01:15:05,714 --> 01:15:07,341 "I know it was you this whole time. 1411 01:15:07,424 --> 01:15:09,051 "I tried sending an email to Tegan 1412 01:15:09,134 --> 01:15:11,094 "and it came up with an error message 1413 01:15:11,178 --> 01:15:13,013 "that my email got rejected 1414 01:15:13,096 --> 01:15:16,058 "and in the details had an email with your name in it. 1415 01:15:16,850 --> 01:15:19,144 "That's too much of a coincidence to not be true. 1416 01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:24,399 "And you also just always know the correct answer 1417 01:15:24,483 --> 01:15:26,693 "to why her emails weren't traced back 1418 01:15:26,777 --> 01:15:28,612 "to the right places, et cetera. 1419 01:15:28,695 --> 01:15:30,155 "Because you did it all. 1420 01:15:32,199 --> 01:15:33,951 "You don't have a job, so it makes sense 1421 01:15:34,034 --> 01:15:37,788 "as to why you're always available to talk and make up stories. 1422 01:15:37,871 --> 01:15:39,164 "This is just so sick. 1423 01:15:39,248 --> 01:15:42,084 "I can't believe anyone would spend their time doing this. 1424 01:15:43,377 --> 01:15:47,256 "I'm sending over everything I have to Piers. 1425 01:15:47,339 --> 01:15:49,591 "So enjoy, 'cause you'll probably be in some legal trouble 1426 01:15:49,675 --> 01:15:51,176 for impersonating someone." 1427 01:15:53,929 --> 01:15:57,015 I don't know why this person did what they did, 1428 01:15:57,975 --> 01:16:00,185 but it turned my life upside down. 1429 01:16:00,269 --> 01:16:02,771 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1430 01:16:05,315 --> 01:16:06,316 [♪ music fades out] 1431 01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:09,987 There's this big email that I saw from JT 1432 01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:12,197 claiming that she received metadata 1433 01:16:12,281 --> 01:16:14,616 that pointed the finger at Tara. Um-- 1434 01:16:14,700 --> 01:16:16,535 And we-- And we have that email? 1435 01:16:17,035 --> 01:16:20,330 [Erin] [on computer] So, we have the email of JT accusing Tara, 1436 01:16:20,414 --> 01:16:22,291 saying, "I knew it was you," 1437 01:16:22,374 --> 01:16:26,503 but once I asked JT about that "bounce back" in the metadata, 1438 01:16:27,004 --> 01:16:29,548 um, we haven't been able to find that. 1439 01:16:29,631 --> 01:16:32,092 So, that's, like, it-- had we-- had we had that 1440 01:16:32,176 --> 01:16:34,386 it would be an open and shut case, right? 1441 01:16:34,469 --> 01:16:38,473 But we only have JT accusing Tara with this. 1442 01:16:38,557 --> 01:16:43,812 [through computer] But Tara was in contact with Jacqi, JT, Lindsey, Jaime, 1443 01:16:43,896 --> 01:16:46,064 management, and Jana. 1444 01:16:46,148 --> 01:16:49,401 We did find a connection between Tara and Julie. 1445 01:16:49,484 --> 01:16:51,820 [Tegan] It's very weird to draw the web of all the people 1446 01:16:51,904 --> 01:16:54,656 that this person reached out to. 1447 01:16:55,866 --> 01:16:58,118 [Erin] This person always lived in Portland, Maine. 1448 01:16:59,203 --> 01:17:04,041 Mark, the suspect number two, was traced back to Maine. 1449 01:17:05,042 --> 01:17:07,002 And you have never lived in Maine. 1450 01:17:07,085 --> 01:17:09,129 Certainly very suspicious, for sure. 1451 01:17:09,213 --> 01:17:10,839 Shall we call that the Maine Train? 1452 01:17:10,923 --> 01:17:11,924 [wind blowing] 1453 01:17:23,727 --> 01:17:27,231 All this paints a portrait of somebody who is obsessive. 1454 01:17:27,314 --> 01:17:31,985 They got kicked off of forums for inappropriate behavior. 1455 01:17:32,069 --> 01:17:34,238 They were in touch with the other victims. 1456 01:17:34,321 --> 01:17:37,241 [through computer] And so, after a year and a half of this 1457 01:17:37,324 --> 01:17:40,077 and, like, taking in all this information, 1458 01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,663 this is the person it's led us to, 1459 01:17:42,746 --> 01:17:45,082 but it's circumstantial evidence. 1460 01:17:45,165 --> 01:17:48,460 I mean, it would be amazing if we had a piece of ev-- like, evidence 1461 01:17:48,544 --> 01:17:50,963 that really 100% was just like, "This is it." 1462 01:17:51,046 --> 01:17:54,758 But there's holes that make me feel like maybe it's not them. 1463 01:17:55,592 --> 01:17:57,386 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1464 01:17:57,469 --> 01:17:59,972 [keyboard keys clacking] 1465 01:18:06,812 --> 01:18:08,814 If you ever find out who the Fegan was, 1466 01:18:08,897 --> 01:18:12,276 I really would like to know why 1467 01:18:12,359 --> 01:18:14,361 and what I would like to say to them, 1468 01:18:14,444 --> 01:18:20,200 I'm torn between, "Fuck you for what you did to Tegan and the rest of us." 1469 01:18:20,284 --> 01:18:22,619 And I just want this person to know 1470 01:18:23,161 --> 01:18:26,290 that it wasn't victimless, you did hurt people. 1471 01:18:26,373 --> 01:18:27,958 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1472 01:18:35,674 --> 01:18:37,593 Nothing that they could say 1473 01:18:38,260 --> 01:18:42,639 would make anything what they did correct or right. 1474 01:18:43,140 --> 01:18:45,726 Like, nothing could change that. 1475 01:18:45,809 --> 01:18:47,769 [♪ suspenseful music continues] 1476 01:18:59,489 --> 01:19:00,709 [♪ music fades out] 1477 01:19:02,868 --> 01:19:04,870 [crew member] And now you can close the eyebrow 1478 01:19:06,079 --> 01:19:07,706 and turn off the camera. 1479 01:19:08,624 --> 01:19:10,417 Can we drop the MIACs? 1480 01:19:11,835 --> 01:19:13,921 -Yeah, yeah, yeah, frame right. Yeah. -[Erin] Okay. 1481 01:19:14,004 --> 01:19:15,506 [crew member] Exactly, that's a little better, 1482 01:19:15,589 --> 01:19:16,590 'cause now I can't really... 1483 01:19:16,673 --> 01:19:17,674 [clapboard clacks] 1484 01:19:18,217 --> 01:19:19,218 [Erin] Yeah. 1485 01:19:20,427 --> 01:19:21,887 -[assistant] Hey, Erin. -[Erin] Yeah? 1486 01:19:21,970 --> 01:19:23,722 [assistant] I'm really sorry to interrupt. 1487 01:19:23,805 --> 01:19:25,724 We just got a text from Tara. 1488 01:19:27,142 --> 01:19:28,143 Um... 1489 01:19:28,685 --> 01:19:30,354 They said, "I've thought about it more 1490 01:19:30,437 --> 01:19:32,439 "and I'm not really interested in being a tool 1491 01:19:32,523 --> 01:19:34,233 "in making someone else more money 1492 01:19:34,316 --> 01:19:36,401 "without any personal payout for myself, 1493 01:19:36,485 --> 01:19:39,863 "especially when I'm being asked to reopen old scars. 1494 01:19:39,947 --> 01:19:41,782 "If Tegan already knew how traumatic this was 1495 01:19:41,865 --> 01:19:43,116 "for the victims of this nightmare, 1496 01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:46,078 "then asking them to unearth ancient and painful history 1497 01:19:46,161 --> 01:19:48,080 is just exploitative and selfish." 1498 01:19:50,874 --> 01:19:51,875 [Erin sighs] 1499 01:19:51,959 --> 01:19:53,919 So, do we think-- 1500 01:19:55,796 --> 01:19:58,632 Do we think that means they will not be coming? 1501 01:19:59,675 --> 01:20:02,761 [assistant] I think they're telling us that they're not going to come. 1502 01:20:02,845 --> 01:20:04,638 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1503 01:20:16,358 --> 01:20:18,735 -[Tegan] [on laptop] Hi, can you hear me? -Yeah. 1504 01:20:18,819 --> 01:20:21,238 So we are all set up in Maine. 1505 01:20:21,697 --> 01:20:23,699 And guess who is not here? 1506 01:20:24,575 --> 01:20:25,826 [Tegan] Your interviewee? 1507 01:20:26,451 --> 01:20:27,536 [Erin] That's correct. 1508 01:20:27,619 --> 01:20:29,413 But I also feel very lured here, right? 1509 01:20:29,872 --> 01:20:30,873 [Tegan] Hmm. 1510 01:20:31,832 --> 01:20:34,751 [Max Kilger] This person waited until you arrived 1511 01:20:34,835 --> 01:20:37,713 to say, "Oh, by the way, uh, I don't think I wanna do this," 1512 01:20:37,796 --> 01:20:39,673 because they want control over you 1513 01:20:39,756 --> 01:20:41,383 and they wanna manipulate you 1514 01:20:41,466 --> 01:20:43,844 and perhaps extract things from you. 1515 01:20:43,927 --> 01:20:45,971 [Erin] I think there's a sense of satisfaction 1516 01:20:46,054 --> 01:20:49,016 in knowing that they, like, got us. 1517 01:20:52,936 --> 01:20:55,272 [♪ suspenseful music playing] 1518 01:20:57,941 --> 01:21:01,320 ♪♪ 1519 01:21:19,046 --> 01:21:21,924 ♪♪ 1520 01:21:51,578 --> 01:21:55,874 ♪♪ 1521 01:22:20,190 --> 01:22:21,733 [line ringing] 1522 01:22:26,572 --> 01:22:27,573 [Erin] Hey, it's Erin. 1523 01:22:28,657 --> 01:22:29,992 [Erin] I have Tegan on the other line, 1524 01:22:30,075 --> 01:22:31,326 I'm gonna merge for a sec, okay? 1525 01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:33,871 [Tegan] [on phone] Hello. 1526 01:22:35,455 --> 01:22:37,374 Well, I just wanna first say thank you so much 1527 01:22:37,457 --> 01:22:40,377 for getting on a call with us. 1528 01:22:40,460 --> 01:22:43,130 I know this is deeply weird 1529 01:22:43,213 --> 01:22:46,216 and, um, I appreciate-- 1530 01:22:46,300 --> 01:22:49,761 I hope now that we've verified it's us, that you feel comfortable-- 1531 01:22:55,559 --> 01:22:58,270 [Tegan] [on phone] Totally. Well, if it's possible 1532 01:22:58,729 --> 01:23:00,564 for me personally, I mean, 1533 01:23:01,023 --> 01:23:05,194 I have an email from you in 2014 1534 01:23:05,277 --> 01:23:09,364 telling my management, Piers, that you... 1535 01:23:10,532 --> 01:23:14,745 had evidence that you knew who Fake Tegan was. 1536 01:23:15,871 --> 01:23:17,623 [keyboard keys clacking] 1537 01:23:23,962 --> 01:23:25,130 We never got that evidence, 1538 01:23:25,214 --> 01:23:27,508 and I think that's where I would love to start, 1539 01:23:27,591 --> 01:23:29,801 if, if you remember anything from that time. 1540 01:23:45,943 --> 01:23:47,778 [Erin] [on phone] So, I mean, I'll jump in. 1541 01:23:48,153 --> 01:23:51,031 You know, you are somebody that, 1542 01:23:51,114 --> 01:23:54,910 um, you told me were a-- was a victim of Fake Tegan. 1543 01:23:54,993 --> 01:23:56,995 I need to take that at face value. 1544 01:23:57,079 --> 01:24:01,708 But I've been looking at this case for a year and a half. 1545 01:24:01,792 --> 01:24:05,087 I've spoken to a bunch of victims. 1546 01:24:05,170 --> 01:24:07,548 [on phone] Part of the thing that kept coming up is 1547 01:24:07,631 --> 01:24:10,217 they would have this sort of dynamic with Fake Tegan 1548 01:24:10,300 --> 01:24:13,971 and then you would actually appear 1549 01:24:14,054 --> 01:24:15,806 trying to talk about the relationship. 1550 01:24:27,693 --> 01:24:31,530 I, I hear that, um, it's not what it felt like to them. 1551 01:24:31,780 --> 01:24:35,075 [on phone] Also, every single victim that we spoke to 1552 01:24:35,617 --> 01:24:37,744 did send us the messages 1553 01:24:37,828 --> 01:24:40,789 in which they were talking to Fake Tegan. 1554 01:24:41,081 --> 01:24:45,460 And it was, to me, suspicious that you did not send anything. 1555 01:24:55,888 --> 01:24:58,098 [Tegan] Um, I don't, 'cause I was hacked twice 1556 01:24:58,182 --> 01:25:00,851 and had to abandon my email in a panicked frenzy. 1557 01:25:00,934 --> 01:25:06,023 One of the origins of your love of the band was the, 1558 01:25:06,106 --> 01:25:08,233 like, the incest fan fiction. 1559 01:25:08,317 --> 01:25:11,153 Is that something that you sort of fully took part in? 1560 01:25:15,324 --> 01:25:16,325 Yes. 1561 01:25:18,702 --> 01:25:21,580 There are coincidences and oddities to where you were 1562 01:25:21,663 --> 01:25:22,998 and the way that you reached out. 1563 01:25:23,081 --> 01:25:25,292 You know, like, your behavior 1564 01:25:25,959 --> 01:25:27,794 has left me feeling very... 1565 01:25:29,713 --> 01:25:32,341 convinced that something's not right. 1566 01:25:32,841 --> 01:25:34,968 So, you have never hacked Tegan's email 1567 01:25:35,052 --> 01:25:36,803 in any way whatsoever? 1568 01:25:42,518 --> 01:25:45,187 [Erin] So, like you feel that you are a victim of Fake Tegan? 1569 01:25:58,408 --> 01:26:00,911 I mean, you seem like you were profoundly affected by this. 1570 01:26:08,710 --> 01:26:09,711 Yes. 1571 01:26:18,929 --> 01:26:20,055 [Tegan] Okay. 1572 01:26:20,138 --> 01:26:22,516 If I wanted to have relationships and affairs 1573 01:26:22,599 --> 01:26:25,853 and friendships with all of these people, why wouldn't I just do it? 1574 01:26:30,482 --> 01:26:32,860 But why? I make friends with people all the time. 1575 01:26:32,943 --> 01:26:34,862 Why would I be hiding my friendships with people? 1576 01:26:34,945 --> 01:26:36,613 I mean, a lot of these victims were just friends. 1577 01:26:37,030 --> 01:26:39,408 [on phone] No one in my world believes that this is real. 1578 01:26:39,491 --> 01:26:41,660 We were extremely worried and distressed 1579 01:26:41,743 --> 01:26:43,704 for the people that were talking to this person. 1580 01:26:43,787 --> 01:26:48,834 Just what do you remember about this person contacting you? 1581 01:26:48,917 --> 01:26:50,544 [on phone] What happened to you? 1582 01:27:04,224 --> 01:27:06,310 And why was it, why was it traumatic? 1583 01:27:19,865 --> 01:27:20,866 Okay. 1584 01:27:32,419 --> 01:27:35,088 [Tegan] You're saying that that's what drove you to reach out to Lindsey? 1585 01:27:36,590 --> 01:27:39,134 Like, at that point you had been carrying on a relationship 1586 01:27:39,218 --> 01:27:40,928 [on phone] with Fake Tegan without feeling guilty. 1587 01:27:41,011 --> 01:27:43,347 But when, when Tegan blew you off, 1588 01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:46,892 then you went in to sort of fuck up her relationship. 1589 01:27:46,975 --> 01:27:48,310 Like, that was sort of the thinking. 1590 01:27:49,478 --> 01:27:50,896 Okay, okay. 1591 01:28:08,580 --> 01:28:10,832 I just acknowledge that this has been hard 1592 01:28:10,916 --> 01:28:13,919 and I do appreciate you taking the time and talking to me. 1593 01:28:14,002 --> 01:28:16,755 Maybe all these things don't add up to you being Fake Tegan, 1594 01:28:16,839 --> 01:28:19,550 but you did things on the Internet that are very easy to find, 1595 01:28:19,633 --> 01:28:22,469 that are extremely aggressive towards me. 1596 01:28:22,553 --> 01:28:25,597 [on phone] The incest page, reaching out to Lindsey, 1597 01:28:25,681 --> 01:28:30,602 you built a Tumblr page to out me as a horrible person 1598 01:28:30,686 --> 01:28:32,271 and release all my personal information. 1599 01:28:32,354 --> 01:28:34,523 And some of your behaviors, when you add all of that up, 1600 01:28:34,606 --> 01:28:38,652 have made you a person that is extremely worrisome to us, you know? 1601 01:28:38,735 --> 01:28:42,239 You attempted to have a... 1602 01:28:42,823 --> 01:28:46,535 um, you know, physical run-in with me at the show. 1603 01:28:46,618 --> 01:28:49,413 And you wanted to publicly destroy me, 1604 01:28:49,872 --> 01:28:52,291 you wanted to personally destroy me. 1605 01:28:52,374 --> 01:28:54,751 You wanted to accuse me and my management -- 1606 01:28:56,044 --> 01:28:57,045 Excuse me? 1607 01:29:13,228 --> 01:29:15,731 Why do you think that-- Why do you think that it didn't affect me? 1608 01:29:16,732 --> 01:29:18,692 Why did you think it doesn't affect me? 1609 01:29:19,193 --> 01:29:20,903 How could this not affect me? 1610 01:29:20,986 --> 01:29:23,572 How could-- How could be, like, violated like this? 1611 01:29:23,655 --> 01:29:25,365 Of course it affected me. 1612 01:29:28,452 --> 01:29:31,288 I've never had a call like that. 1613 01:29:32,873 --> 01:29:34,917 I-- It just was really different than what I expected. 1614 01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,795 To me, the emotional depth of them exploring their feelings 1615 01:29:38,879 --> 01:29:40,881 and what happened feels genuine to me. 1616 01:29:40,964 --> 01:29:42,424 It doesn't rule out the fact that they did 1617 01:29:42,508 --> 01:29:43,842 some really fuckin' shitty stuff to me. 1618 01:29:45,302 --> 01:29:46,303 Yeah. 1619 01:29:46,386 --> 01:29:50,182 But I feel like Tara's response to certain questions, 1620 01:29:50,265 --> 01:29:52,935 especially the ones where we were just asking to hear about 1621 01:29:53,018 --> 01:29:54,269 their experience, 1622 01:29:54,686 --> 01:29:56,104 it felt like... 1623 01:29:56,688 --> 01:29:57,773 it felt real to me. 1624 01:29:58,690 --> 01:30:02,945 This is somebody who had a relationship with Fake Tegan, 1625 01:30:03,737 --> 01:30:07,282 feels totally fucked over, got conned and is pissed. 1626 01:30:07,366 --> 01:30:10,369 So, I do not think Tara is Fegan. 1627 01:30:11,286 --> 01:30:12,871 I don't think we've found Fegan. 1628 01:30:13,914 --> 01:30:18,126 I went into the call with a lot of feelings about 1629 01:30:18,210 --> 01:30:20,921 that this was the person. I flew to Maine, 1630 01:30:21,255 --> 01:30:23,924 I got ready to interview them. 1631 01:30:24,007 --> 01:30:25,759 They ghosted at the last second. 1632 01:30:25,843 --> 01:30:27,469 For me doing this for a long time, 1633 01:30:27,553 --> 01:30:29,555 it's incredibly suspicious. 1634 01:30:29,638 --> 01:30:31,723 And so, uh... 1635 01:30:31,807 --> 01:30:32,808 But, 1636 01:30:34,685 --> 01:30:35,894 I think you're right. 1637 01:30:35,978 --> 01:30:38,897 [on computer] Yes, we would like to find out who did it, 1638 01:30:38,981 --> 01:30:41,233 but it's also, it's so much more, 1639 01:30:41,316 --> 01:30:44,236 it's like what this does to people and the dehumanization, 1640 01:30:44,319 --> 01:30:47,489 and when, when Tara was like, "This didn't affect you. 1641 01:30:47,573 --> 01:30:48,991 How could this have affected you?" 1642 01:30:49,074 --> 01:30:51,076 That to me encapsulated everything. 1643 01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:53,620 It's like, of course, it affected you, 1644 01:30:53,704 --> 01:30:56,790 but nobody thinks of you as a person that can be hurt. 1645 01:30:56,874 --> 01:30:57,875 Yeah. 1646 01:30:59,376 --> 01:31:02,629 The truth is messy, the truth is complicated. 1647 01:31:02,713 --> 01:31:06,008 And this is the truth of this project 1648 01:31:06,091 --> 01:31:09,928 that there were bad actors and Fegan was just one of them. 1649 01:31:11,096 --> 01:31:13,307 [♪ somber piano music playing] 1650 01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:31,700 -[JT] Hey. -[Tegan] Hi. 1651 01:31:31,783 --> 01:31:32,826 You made it. 1652 01:31:33,410 --> 01:31:34,494 How's it going? 1653 01:31:34,578 --> 01:31:36,371 [JT] I'm feeling weird. [nervous chuckle] 1654 01:31:36,455 --> 01:31:40,375 -Yeah, it's, uh, very unnatural. -[JT] Yeah. 1655 01:31:43,212 --> 01:31:45,047 [Erin] Alright, whenever you're ready, JT. 1656 01:31:49,051 --> 01:31:52,596 Erin was asking about the feeling I get, 1657 01:31:53,013 --> 01:31:55,098 like, just, like, by hearing your name. 1658 01:31:55,182 --> 01:31:57,100 I wouldn't even say your name for the longest time. 1659 01:31:57,184 --> 01:31:58,185 Yeah. 1660 01:31:58,268 --> 01:32:01,522 I have everything of your social media's blocked 1661 01:32:01,605 --> 01:32:04,191 -on everything I possibly could. -[Tegan] Yeah. 1662 01:32:04,274 --> 01:32:07,444 [JT] I was, like, at the grocery store, you know, 1663 01:32:08,153 --> 01:32:11,073 music's playing and then one of your songs comes on 1664 01:32:11,156 --> 01:32:13,992 and I'm immediately, like, full-body triggered, 1665 01:32:14,076 --> 01:32:15,494 like, feeling sick, 1666 01:32:16,078 --> 01:32:19,915 and it sucks, and I don't, like, wanna feel like that. 1667 01:32:19,998 --> 01:32:21,124 You're not alone. 1668 01:32:21,208 --> 01:32:23,460 I mean, I've heard that from other victims of, of Fegan. 1669 01:32:23,544 --> 01:32:28,173 It distorts your relationship to me, the music, you know? 1670 01:32:28,257 --> 01:32:29,925 -I understand that. -Mm-hmm. Yeah. 1671 01:32:31,051 --> 01:32:32,761 Is part of why you agreed to do this 1672 01:32:32,845 --> 01:32:35,848 is because you're hoping, like, that people will see this and realize, 1673 01:32:35,931 --> 01:32:38,600 like, you were, like-- that Fake Tegan is real? 1674 01:32:38,684 --> 01:32:40,894 Like, that this happened to you, that you were tricked and that... 1675 01:32:40,978 --> 01:32:41,979 Yeah. 1676 01:32:42,062 --> 01:32:43,480 ...you really weren't making it up? Like-- 1677 01:32:43,564 --> 01:32:45,315 It feels like it's just haunting me and I'm, like, 1678 01:32:45,399 --> 01:32:48,735 wondering what I fucking did in my past life to deserve this. 1679 01:32:48,819 --> 01:32:50,445 It's not your fault, you don't deserve it. 1680 01:32:51,154 --> 01:32:53,282 It's not your fault. It haunts me too. 1681 01:32:53,365 --> 01:32:54,867 I just feel very stupid. 1682 01:32:54,950 --> 01:32:57,744 And I'm so sorry that you feel that way, I hate that. 1683 01:32:57,828 --> 01:32:59,079 Are you angry with me? 1684 01:32:59,162 --> 01:33:00,831 No. No, not at all. 1685 01:33:00,914 --> 01:33:03,208 Was there a time where-- when you were angry with me? 1686 01:33:04,376 --> 01:33:06,628 No, there was a time where I was very scared of you. 1687 01:33:07,171 --> 01:33:08,255 [JT] That's unfortunate. 1688 01:33:08,714 --> 01:33:10,966 I don't think I'm a very scary person. 1689 01:33:12,467 --> 01:33:14,261 I was just really fucking mad. 1690 01:33:14,344 --> 01:33:17,306 I get the sense you feel I'm responsible somehow still. 1691 01:33:18,724 --> 01:33:22,477 The thing of it is, the reason why there's still 1692 01:33:22,978 --> 01:33:27,357 an underlining anger is because I can't-- 1693 01:33:28,317 --> 01:33:30,652 Because the story was you, 1694 01:33:31,737 --> 01:33:35,574 and then there was the whatever the fuck happened, 1695 01:33:36,700 --> 01:33:39,161 I can't separate you from the story. 1696 01:33:39,244 --> 01:33:41,788 Yeah, I really get that. 1697 01:33:42,289 --> 01:33:43,332 And... 1698 01:33:44,666 --> 01:33:48,003 I don't think I understood that as much as I do now. 1699 01:33:48,670 --> 01:33:52,799 [JT] I hope that I can move on, like, 1700 01:33:53,050 --> 01:33:55,302 -but I have to untangle the whole thing... -Yes. Yeah. 1701 01:33:55,385 --> 01:33:56,386 ...the story from you 1702 01:33:56,470 --> 01:34:01,099 and I need to, like, keep on doing that. 1703 01:34:01,975 --> 01:34:04,228 -But I am trying. -[Tegan] Mm-hmm. 1704 01:34:04,311 --> 01:34:06,730 [♪ somber music playing] 1705 01:34:12,569 --> 01:34:15,906 The troubling question is that we want to believe 1706 01:34:15,989 --> 01:34:19,493 we are not like the people who would do this, 1707 01:34:20,035 --> 01:34:21,286 or we are not like the people 1708 01:34:21,370 --> 01:34:24,748 who would be gullible enough to believe this. 1709 01:34:24,831 --> 01:34:27,918 But the truth is, is that we're all a lot more similar 1710 01:34:28,001 --> 01:34:30,963 and I think that makes all of us really uncomfortable. 1711 01:34:31,046 --> 01:34:35,384 ♪♪ 1712 01:34:35,467 --> 01:34:38,095 [Erin] Do you feel like this film has been disruptive to your life? 1713 01:34:38,178 --> 01:34:39,388 [laughs] 1714 01:34:42,182 --> 01:34:45,853 I definitely... have had moments 1715 01:34:45,936 --> 01:34:47,563 and have been honest about this, 1716 01:34:47,646 --> 01:34:49,731 that I've regretted opening this all up again, 1717 01:34:49,815 --> 01:34:51,149 starting this all over again. 1718 01:34:51,233 --> 01:34:52,442 -Hi, how's it going? -Hi. 1719 01:34:52,526 --> 01:34:53,694 -Good, how are you? -I'm Tegan. 1720 01:34:54,444 --> 01:34:57,614 It's just each time I talk to a new Fake Tegan victim... 1721 01:34:57,698 --> 01:34:58,699 Hi. 1722 01:34:58,782 --> 01:34:59,783 [both] Hi. 1723 01:34:59,867 --> 01:35:02,327 [Tegan] ...I understand that it's necessary 1724 01:35:02,411 --> 01:35:05,914 and even the hardest parts... 1725 01:35:06,415 --> 01:35:08,125 Okay, I'm ready. 1726 01:35:08,667 --> 01:35:09,918 ...feel important. 1727 01:35:12,588 --> 01:35:16,842 [Erin] What have been the hardest moments for you? 1728 01:35:18,051 --> 01:35:19,720 I think the hardest moment's now. 1729 01:35:21,221 --> 01:35:24,057 Yeah, because I don't think it's gonna stop, you know? I-- 1730 01:35:24,141 --> 01:35:27,644 What's to stop that this could just encourage a new generation of Fake Tegans? 1731 01:35:27,728 --> 01:35:30,147 And, and not even Fake Tegan, like, just anyone. 1732 01:35:30,230 --> 01:35:32,733 We're all susceptible to this, you know? 1733 01:35:34,818 --> 01:35:38,572 Fake Tegan made me a less trusting person. 1734 01:35:39,615 --> 01:35:41,783 [audience cheering] 1735 01:35:41,867 --> 01:35:46,205 I'm really proud of the Tegan and Sara community and the fans. 1736 01:35:46,872 --> 01:35:50,542 But fan culture is, "I wanna know more. 1737 01:35:50,626 --> 01:35:52,211 I wanna know more, I wanna know more." 1738 01:35:52,711 --> 01:35:55,631 It's insatiable because you won't ever really know me... 1739 01:35:57,049 --> 01:35:59,051 unless you kidnap me and get to know me. 1740 01:35:59,134 --> 01:36:00,302 -[Erin] No. -[Tegan laughs] 1741 01:36:00,385 --> 01:36:02,095 [Erin] We're not gonna use that joke. 1742 01:36:02,179 --> 01:36:03,555 [sing-songy] ♪ Horrific ♪ 1743 01:36:03,639 --> 01:36:06,350 [♪ "Closer" by Tegan and Sara playing] 1744 01:36:06,433 --> 01:36:09,228 ♪ All I wanna get is, a little bit closer ♪ 1745 01:36:10,562 --> 01:36:16,318 ♪ All I wanna know is, can you come a little closer? ♪ 1746 01:36:17,110 --> 01:36:20,864 ♪ Here comes the breath before we get ♪ 1747 01:36:20,948 --> 01:36:23,325 ♪ A little bit closer ♪ 1748 01:36:24,201 --> 01:36:28,038 ♪ Here comes the rush before we touch ♪ 1749 01:36:28,121 --> 01:36:30,415 ♪ Come a little closer ♪ 1750 01:36:32,751 --> 01:36:36,171 ♪ The doors are open, the wind is really blowing ♪ 1751 01:36:36,255 --> 01:36:39,883 ♪ The night sky is changing overhead ♪ 1752 01:36:39,967 --> 01:36:43,178 ♪ It's not just all physical ♪ 1753 01:36:43,262 --> 01:36:46,807 ♪ I'm the type who won't get oh, so critical ♪ 1754 01:36:46,890 --> 01:36:50,018 ♪ So let's make things physical ♪ 1755 01:36:50,102 --> 01:36:54,273 ♪ I won't treat you like you're oh, so typical ♪ 1756 01:36:57,234 --> 01:37:00,571 ♪ I won't treat you like you're oh, so typical ♪ 1757 01:37:00,654 --> 01:37:06,201 ♪ All you think of lately is getting underneath me ♪ 1758 01:37:07,578 --> 01:37:10,289 ♪ All I dream of lately ♪ 1759 01:37:10,372 --> 01:37:13,208 ♪ Is how to get you underneath me ♪ 1760 01:37:14,084 --> 01:37:17,796 ♪ Here comes the heat before we meet ♪ 1761 01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:20,340 ♪ A little bit closer ♪ 1762 01:37:21,133 --> 01:37:24,553 ♪ Here comes the spark before the dark ♪ 1763 01:37:24,928 --> 01:37:27,264 ♪ Come a little closer ♪ 1764 01:37:29,683 --> 01:37:33,020 ♪ The lights are off and the sun is finally setting ♪ 1765 01:37:33,103 --> 01:37:36,732 ♪ The night sky is changing overhead ♪ 1766 01:37:36,815 --> 01:37:40,027 ♪ It's not just all physical ♪ 1767 01:37:40,110 --> 01:37:43,739 ♪ I'm the type who won't get oh, so critical ♪ 1768 01:37:43,822 --> 01:37:46,992 ♪ So let's make things physical ♪ 1769 01:37:47,075 --> 01:37:50,871 ♪ I won't treat you like you're oh, so typical ♪ 1770 01:37:50,954 --> 01:37:54,374 ♪ I want you close, I want you ♪ 1771 01:37:54,458 --> 01:37:57,711 ♪ I won't treat you like you're typical ♪ 1772 01:37:57,794 --> 01:38:01,381 ♪ I want you close, I want you ♪ 1773 01:38:01,465 --> 01:38:05,093 ♪ I won't treat you like you're typical ♪ 1774 01:38:07,054 --> 01:38:09,014 [♪ vocalizing] 1775 01:38:18,899 --> 01:38:22,444 ♪ Here come the dreams of you and me ♪ 1776 01:38:22,528 --> 01:38:24,863 ♪ Here come the dreams ♪ 1777 01:38:25,864 --> 01:38:29,284 ♪ Here come the dreams of you and me ♪ 1778 01:38:29,368 --> 01:38:31,912 ♪ Here come the dreams ♪ 1779 01:38:32,913 --> 01:38:36,208 ♪ It's not just all physical ♪ 1780 01:38:36,291 --> 01:38:39,795 ♪ I'm the type who won't get oh, so critical ♪ 1781 01:38:39,878 --> 01:38:43,131 ♪ So let's make things physical ♪ 1782 01:38:43,215 --> 01:38:46,802 ♪ I won't treat you like you're oh, so typical ♪ 1783 01:38:46,885 --> 01:38:50,305 ♪ I want you close, I want you ♪ 1784 01:38:50,389 --> 01:38:53,892 ♪ I won't treat you like you're typical ♪ 1785 01:38:53,976 --> 01:38:57,396 ♪ I want you close, I want you ♪ 1786 01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:01,024 ♪ I won't treat you like you're typical ♪ 1787 01:39:04,486 --> 01:39:08,156 ♪ I won't treat you like you're typical ♪ 1788 01:39:11,535 --> 01:39:14,454 ♪ I won't treat you like you're typical ♪ 1789 01:39:14,538 --> 01:39:17,791 ♪ All I wanna get is ♪ 1790 01:39:17,875 --> 01:39:20,252 ♪ A little bit closer ♪